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#322127 - 02/28/20 05:16 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
The Native American woman candidate is shading the truth. Again.

She’s relying on ignorance of her base with those 2016 rules negotiations to put that description of ‘Sanders’ position regarding those rules. They wanted the Super delegates GONE!

But it gives her supporters the permission to support an illiberal voting arrangement.

Doesn’t change the situation of the party willing to give Trump another 4 years than to give citizens health care and a pay raise. At this point, Warren is part of that effort.

American prisons are full of people on account of Liberal ‘rules’. Another reason I despise Liberals.










Edited by chunkstyle (02/28/20 05:17 AM)

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#322128 - 02/28/20 05:21 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15371
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
The Native American woman candidate is shading the truth. Again.

She’s relying on ignorance of her base with those 2016 rules negotiations to put that description of ‘Sanders’ position regarding those rules. They wanted the Super delegates GONE!

But it gives her supporters the permission to support an illiberal voting arrangement.

Doesn’t change the situation of the party willing to give Trump another 4 years than to give citizens health care and a pay raise. At this point, Warren is part of that effort.

American prisons are full of people on account of Liberal ‘rules’. Another reason I despise Liberals.


You'll have to back that claim up.
I too would love to have never seen any kind of super-anything but the new rules were Bernie's.
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#322129 - 02/28/20 06:04 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
Warren makes the claim that the delegate rule changes, as they now exist, were what sanders wanted.

It’s what got negotiated by three parties as I recall. It’s what the Sanders team had to settle for. The issues of open primaries and same day registration pushed by Sanders camp, to broaden party membership, was largely ignored.

2016 was so fraudulent and illiberal with superdelegates throwing in with Clinton most everyone wanted them gone. What got negotiated is different than what was wanted.

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#322130 - 02/28/20 06:11 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
She’s just giving her liberal tribe a rational to justify the ratf#cking she’s currently taking part in. It’s the same rationalizing that they were doing in 2016.

Again, I mentioned this months ago as a possibility. If o look hard I could probably find it but I’m too lazy to look.

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#322133 - 02/28/20 01:44 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
perotista Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 427
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
The Democratic Party is interfering in the elections with the most popular candidate.
I wouldn’t expect Sanders supporters to come out to vote.
Without that large support it’s doubtful they’ll win in the general.
You’ll be voting for a party that sabotages itself.

An interesting problem.


I think the DNC should have learned from 2016 that interfering with the primaries in Hillary's favor is one of the reasons she lost. Angry Sanders supporters. Who knows how many stayed home because of that, we do know that the Democratic base voted for Hillary 89-8 over Trump with 3% voting third party. Sanders supporters voted for Hillary by a 75-12 margin over Trump, but with a huge 13% opting for third party candidates. Here's a Newsweek article on that.

BERNIE SANDERS VOTERS HELPED TRUMP WIN AND HERE'S PROOF

https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-trump-2016-election-654320

I wouldn't if I were the DNC try for a repeat in 2020.

Sanders is indeed the most popular, so far. With three primaries and caucuses down Sanders has 27.4% of the Democratic Primary vote cast so far. Buttigieg has 22.2%, Klobuchar 16.0%, Warren 12.8%, Biden 12.3% with the rest in single digits. Sanders leads in delegates with 45 to Buttigieg 25, Biden 15, Warren 8, Klobuchar 7. None of the rest has any delegates.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/democratic_vote_count.html
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/democratic_delegate_count.html

The only caveat I would add to Sanders being the most popular candidates is that Sanders has won three mostly white states, blacks haven't had a chance to be heard yet. Blacks in 2016 made up a third of the Democratic primary voters. Nationwide white democratic primary voters prefer Sanders 30-18 over Warren, Biden 14%, Buttigieg 12% and Bloomberg who hasn't entered any primaries yet at 9%. Blacks on the other had support Biden 37-24% over Sanders as of 25 Feb. But looking at South Carolina it seems Biden who at one time, 1 Feb had the support of 55% of blacks, is regaining their support. We'll see once the vote in South Carolina is in whether Biden is or isn't regaining black support.
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#322135 - 02/28/20 01:56 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Hamish Howl Offline
newbie

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 482
Loc: Tucson, AZ
The rules are and were clearly stated. To get nominated on the first ballot, you need 50%+1. That's not how I would have arranged it (Plurality would do), but the time to holler about this was prior to the primaries beginning. AFAIK, they can't change the rules after the primaries have begun.
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#322140 - 02/28/20 02:34 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
Nobody’s arguing the understanding of the rules.
The guy asking Warren the question had a valid question.
S’funny how libs love rules to avoid the moral and ethical dilemmas.
She keeps framing it as Sanders rules, basically. That’s not true. It’s what the three parties negotiated to.
She’s doing what she does and snaking Sanders by her mischaracterization of the rules being his.

Does any Warren fans remember her superdelegate position and public comments after 2016? What’s changed from 2016 Warren and today’s Warren?

No? Doesn’t matter? The question was a valid one. How do you justify an illiberal process.

Nothing more dangerous than liberals and their rules.


Speaks to her

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#322141 - 02/28/20 02:40 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: perotista]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
There is always a sorting out of voters when there preferred primary candidate calls it quits. Sanders voters defected no more than any other previous primary voter whose candidate called it quits.
The exception was Hillary supporters in 2008. They broke in larger numbers for Romney rather than vote for Obama. Telling of the Clinton coalition.

Sanders supporters were then and still are being made the scapegoats of a thoroughly corrupt and incompetent party’s chosen nominee.

Did you get that- party’s chosen nominee.

But but but the rules.....

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#322142 - 02/28/20 02:50 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Hamish Howl Offline
newbie

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 482
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
There is always a sorting out of voters when there preferred primary candidate calls it quits. Sanders voters defected no more than any other previous primary voter whose candidate called it quits.
The exception was Hillary supporters in 2008. They broke in larger numbers for Romney rather than vote for Obama. Telling of the Clinton coalition.

Sanders supporters were then and still are being made the scapegoats of a thoroughly corrupt and incompetent party’s chosen nominee.

Did you get that- party’s chosen nominee.

But but but the rules.....


It makes me wonder why he is running as a democrat at all, if they are that incompetent and horrible.

BUT BUT BUT MUH SOCIAL DEMOCRACIES.


Edited by Hamish Howl (02/28/20 02:51 PM)
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#322144 - 02/28/20 03:15 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Hamish Howl]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
The national rules set up by both political monopolies that eliminate third party prospects.

But you weren’t being serious were you?

Though many felt, myself included, sanders should have run on a third party ticket. He would have had enough support to get on most of the ballots.

Liberals running the party will not stop the rightward authoritarian drift. They’ve had 40 years to do that.
I think the party is beyond reforming myself. Sanders doesn’t think so apparently.

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