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#322203 - 02/29/20 12:22 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10347
Loc: North San Diego County
Let's review a little history here: In 2016, Hillary had more delegates than Sanders, WITHOUT counting the super-delegates. So the people who voted spoke. Bernie did not have the votes. You can't say the DNC machinations created her votes or subtracted from Bernie's. They may have influenced people to vote for Hillary, but after all that's what everybody does before elections. I'm sure Bernie's supporters were out there trying to get people to vote for him, and he was spending money to influence people.

If Bernie gets as many delegates as it looks like he will get, he's going to be the Democratic nominee. If the Covid-19 pandemic is as bad as it looks like it will be, I think the candidate promoting health care for all is going to win in a landslide over the asshat who lies about it being "like a cold".

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#322204 - 02/29/20 12:29 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: danarhea]
perotista Online   content
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 832
Originally Posted By: danarhea
Originally Posted By: perotista
I went through all the polls for the Super Tuesday states, I wrote down the leader in each. I’ve been wondering if Biden has a good showing in South Carolina Saturday, if by Monday that might change some of the dynamics for Super Tuesday. As of 28 Feb, here are the leaders in the super Tuesday States and the percentage points ahead. I’m doing this because I seen Biden who was ahead in South Carolina by just 2 points over Sanders on 22 Feb has pulled out to an 18-point lead today.

Alabama Biden 21
Arkansas Bloomberg 1
California Sanders 20
Colorado Sanders 15
Maine Sanders 5
Massachusetts Sanders 5
North Carolina Biden 1
Oklahoma Bloomberg 3
Tennessee Biden 10
Texas Sanders 5
Utah Sanders 9
Vermont Sanders 38
Virginia Sanders 3

See you on 2 Mar.


Not sure if the South Carolina result will change Tuesday's outcome. The majority of people have already early voted in most of those states.


I don't know if they will or won't. But being a numbers guy, I'm interested it that. I hadn't considered early voting. Most of the time I had voted there was no such thing. Showing my age there. I'm just interested in the trends. Is South Carolina alone or is the trend spreading? That is what I want to find out.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#322206 - 02/29/20 12:32 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
Democrats have been attacking the left for decades now.
You feel threatened? Join the club.

The party has decided if they can’t use superdelegates until second round vote, then they will assure a second round vote.

It makes no matter to Bernie or bust crowd. Libs have been scapegoating them for the 2016 loss. As well as Comey, Russia, Cambridge analytics, etc, etc

You lose any leverage you have when you assure a political party your vote. Good look with mythical remaking the Democratic party if they’ve regained power. You gave them what they needed. They will forget you after elections if history is a guide.

Your idea seems backwards to the very concept of democracy. Sounds more like the rational of an abused spouse.


Edited by chunkstyle (02/29/20 12:33 AM)

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#322209 - 02/29/20 12:51 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17275
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I like Bernie, I want Bernie, but I will not sacrifice myself in the fire of retribution to "teach everyone a lesson" for not agreeing with me.

So not voting the way you think I should is "sacrificing myself in the fires of retribution to "teach everyone a lesson""?

Why can't I just vote or not vote for whichever candidate I please? Even if The Party f*cks my favorite candidate seven ways from Sunday and inserts their favorite neo-liberal billionaire candidate into the race, you believe that for some reason I...not even a member of the party...owe the party my vote?

Maybe you need to be trying to convince Republicans to vote blue. You'll stand a better chance with that than getting me to vote for Biden or Bloomberg.
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#322211 - 02/29/20 01:32 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
I like Bernie, I want Bernie, but I will not sacrifice myself in the fire of retribution to "teach everyone a lesson" for not agreeing with me.

So not voting the way you think I should is "sacrificing myself in the fires of retribution to "teach everyone a lesson""?

Why can't I just vote or not vote for whichever candidate I please? Even if The Party f*cks my favorite candidate seven ways from Sunday and inserts their favorite neo-liberal billionaire candidate into the race, you believe that for some reason I...not even a member of the party...owe the party my vote?

Maybe you need to be trying to convince Republicans to vote blue. You'll stand a better chance with that than getting me to vote for Biden or Bloomberg.


Nothing of the kind, Greger. I am just explaining why I cannot do it.
If Bernie wins, he gets my vote.
If a glass of lukewarm water wins, it gets my vote.
Right now, getting rid of Trump trumps everything else, he is a cancer on my life and the lives of my wife and kids.

We will not survive four more years of him...or even four more years of Mitch McConnell's stranglehold on the Senate.
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#322212 - 02/29/20 01:34 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
perotista Online   content
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 832
History shows that those who identify or associate themselves with either the Republican or the Democratic Party will vote for their party's candidate 90% of the time regardless of who that candidate is. Neither party's base is large enough for either party to ignore independents, although it seems both try like the dickens lately.

It wasn't Democrats that caused Hillary's loss, it was independents who went to Trump. It wasn't Republicans that caused either McCain nor Romney to lose, they lost the independent vote. Big in 2008. G.W. Bush won independents and won twice as did Bill Clinton.

Personally, I owe no allegiance to any political party. I vote candidates and sometimes I vote against both major party candidates because I don't like either one, ALA 2016.

Each of us has our own reasons why we vote the way we do. That reason may seem asinine and insane to quite a lot of folks, but it is important to me, to any voter. When the Democrats decide who their nominee will be, then I'll decide who I'll vote for or perhaps against. Party's mean absolutely nothing to me, but candidates mean everything.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#322213 - 02/29/20 01:42 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: pondering_it_all]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
if you haven’t already, read the Podesta emails and we’ll talk.
Also, when did the DNC become the arbiter of who gets to become the nominee?
I thought it was the voters who get to decide while the corporation stays neutral.

Your argument misses some very big problems of the 2016 primary that have only festered within the party.

Ben Warren recognized the problems when she was on the record regarding superdelegates:

“Massachusetts State Democratic Convention in Lowell on Saturday, Senator Elizabeth Warren sided with Bernie Sanders in the ongoing fight over superdelegates in the Democratic primary.
Sanders hopes to defy odds with turnout: 'California loves a comeback'
“I’m a superdelegate,” Warren said, “and I don’t believe in superdelegates.”

Way back machine

She seems to have changed her mind since.

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#322214 - 02/29/20 01:45 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger


Maybe you need to be trying to convince Republicans to vote blue. You'll stand a better chance with that than getting me to vote for Biden or Bloomberg.


That's happening too.
I linked to it in another thread.
There are Republicans, seems like a growing number, who are heeding Max Boot and other Never Trumpers, who have decided that they would rather have ANY Democrat, even Bernie, in office, than have a continuation of the current POTUS and his rubber stamp Reichstag.

And this is nothing new either, because as you know, Barry Goldwater's last communique to his party went like this:

"Do not associate my name with anything you do. You are extremists, and you've hurt the Republican party much more than the Democrats have."

I'm not God nor do I play him on TV but I would wager that Mr. Goldwater would be on the side of Max Boot.
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

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#322215 - 02/29/20 01:56 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10347
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
The party has decided if they can’t use superdelegates until second round vote, then they will assure a second round vote.


And exactly how would they do that? If Bernie has the votes there will be no second round. Nobody can "assure a second round". States are very transparent with voting results these days. If somebody tried to change the totals if would be obvious to way too many people to fly.

I suspect unfounded paranoia.

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#322216 - 02/29/20 01:58 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: perotista]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3887
Loc: Eugene, OR
Party's mean absolutely nothing to me, but candidates mean everything.

Well stated perotista. I could not have phrased that better myself if I had tried.

I don’t post much here anymore as I feel I have already stated pretty much what I believe. And how I view the world. But I lurk and am keeping on eye on you folks.

cool

Carry on...
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Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.

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