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#322722 - 03/11/20 02:20 PM The coming crash
danarhea Offline
stranger

Registered: 02/26/20
Posts: 33
You need to read this article by Steven Vincent, an economist with Dow Jones. Our economy is propped up by debt, and this bubble is getting ready to pop. The result is going to be another 1929. You can blame Trump for this, but you can also blame Obama, as well as every other political figure that supported an economy which is supported by nothing but debt. Obama didn't want to reign in spending, and neither does Trump. They wanted to look good in the eyes of the public, and leave the mess for a future president to deal with and become unpopular with as a result. The coming crash is going to happen on Trump's watch, but the signs were there long before Trump became president. The chickens are now coming home to roost. No, it's not just corona virus, and it's not just the oil war between Russia and Saudi Arabia. These are just the pins which have popped the bubble. The problem was debt. Let me repeat this. The problem was debt.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4330934...d=mw_quote_news

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#322725 - 03/11/20 05:30 PM Re: The coming crash [Re: danarhea]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16843
Loc: Florida
I don't wanna say anything nice about Obama, but he was saddled with the recession left by Bush, he was saddled with paying for the Bush wars. And he was saddled with an obstructive congress dedicated to nothing but his failure. Obama didn't have much control over spending during his presidency. If you'll recall, John Boehner controlled the purse strings back then.

Cutting spending will not save us. Only increasing revenue dramatically will get the bills paid. Raising up the working class to create a vibrant economy....streamlining spending to do the most good.

President Trump has floated the idea of bailing out any of the wealthy who might suffer losses during this downturn...it is they our government is sworn to serve after all. And preserving their wealth from taxes is the mountain they will die on.

**Edit** Oh and Dana, it's good to see you again!


Edited by Greger (03/11/20 05:31 PM)
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#322726 - 03/11/20 05:31 PM Re: The coming crash [Re: danarhea]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3237
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
First, the Obama thing. Obama was forced to bail out the banking system. That being said he did have the deficit on a decidedly downward path. Then Trump came in, started seriously raising the deficit and then the debt every year he has been in power. Remember, Trump claimed to be "the master of debt". If he holds true to form he will, eventually, simply refuse to pay the national debt and THEN we will have something that will literally destroy us. His current plan, to do away with all payroll taxes, to 'save' the economy will add over 1 trillion to our existing national debt. I wonder what happens when we suddenly have double, or even triple, digit inflation?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_policy_of_the_Barack_Obama_administration

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#322740 - 03/11/20 07:56 PM Re: The coming crash [Re: danarhea]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16843
Loc: Florida
Quote:
The chickens are now coming home to roost. No, it's not just corona virus, and it's not just the oil war between Russia and Saudi Arabia. These are just the pins which have popped the bubble. The problem was debt. Let me repeat this. The problem was debt.


Maybe. Seems perfectly legit. Or maybe not. We'll know in 30 days or so. Oil kerfuffles generally resolve themselves over time and this is just a little battle in an unending fossil fuel trade war. Looks likes the results for us proles will be cheaper gas.
Corona virus looks like it's gonna blow over too.

Did the balloon pop or has it just got a couple pin holes in it?
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#322745 - 03/12/20 01:58 AM Re: The coming crash [Re: danarhea]
danarhea Offline
stranger

Registered: 02/26/20
Posts: 33
Before Trump's speech this evening, Dow Futures were at +24, which is where the DOW was supposed to start in the morning. After Trump's speech, Futures are crashing. The market is now expected to open somewhere around -800 to -900, and it's still dropping.

Tired of winning yet?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/11/futures-...wait-trump.html

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#322746 - 03/12/20 02:08 AM Re: The coming crash [Re: Greger]
danarhea Offline
stranger

Registered: 02/26/20
Posts: 33
Originally Posted By: Greger
I don't wanna say anything nice about Obama, but he was saddled with the recession left by Bush, he was saddled with paying for the Bush wars. And he was saddled with an obstructive congress dedicated to nothing but his failure. Obama didn't have much control over spending during his presidency. If you'll recall, John Boehner controlled the purse strings back then.

Cutting spending will not save us. Only increasing revenue dramatically will get the bills paid. Raising up the working class to create a vibrant economy....streamlining spending to do the most good.

President Trump has floated the idea of bailing out any of the wealthy who might suffer losses during this downturn...it is they our government is sworn to serve after all. And preserving their wealth from taxes is the mountain they will die on.

**Edit** Oh and Dana, it's good to see you again!


I was one of the biggest Bush bashers back at the other forum I used to be a member of (which I will not mention - LOL), but the Bush recession actually started with Clinton. It was under Clinton that bills were passed allowing bad mortgages and other loans to be bundled into speculative packages which were not worth the paper they were printed on. Yes, it originated with Republicans, but Democrats jumped on board with relish, and Clinton signed the bill, which by the way, also removed Glass-Steagal protections from our monetary system. Crashing the system was just a matter of time, and the crash happened on Bush's watch.... NOTE: Yea, Bush helped too.... in spades. LOL.

Oh yea, good to see you again too. smile


Edited by danarhea (03/12/20 02:09 AM)

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#322747 - 03/12/20 02:39 AM Re: The coming crash [Re: danarhea]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16843
Loc: Florida
I just sat back down here and read some of the news. This could be the big one.

The trainwreck we all knew was coming.
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#322756 - 03/12/20 05:44 PM Re: The coming crash [Re: danarhea]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3237
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Removing glass-steagal was the worst of it. He did it, literally, in the last minutes of his tenure. There has been any number of tires to restore it to no avail. If the Dems actually win it all my hope that restoration becomes one of the very first things they do. Perhaps the house should pass the restoration right now so they can jump on it right along with the almost 450 other bills awaiting some attention in the Senate.

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#322757 - 03/12/20 05:56 PM Re: The coming crash [Re: Greger]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3237
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
You may be right and this is the one we knew was coming. Them that claim they understand say this one is not going to go away quite as easily as the one Obama had to deal with.

Also, hopefully, the Dems will mention just who, and what party, is responsible for this one, the last one, the one before that, and the one before that (going back 200 years!) Eventually one would think that the canny American voting public will get the message and stop voting in economic ignoramuses that actually believe their economics 'work' (THEY DON'T) even though they have, consistently, failed going waaay back! Its one of the political secrets that the Dems have been careful to keep secret everytime they take over from a Republican disaster (everytime they do takeover).

As far as I can tell the reason for this recalcitrance in pointing out Republican responsibility is that they need the Republicans to screw it up so they can come to power. I am basing this on the simple fact that Dems have NEVER taken over for Republicans without an existing Republican economic disaster.

Oh, apparently the administration has also figured out yet another way to remove more thousands from the food stamp program whilst, at the same time, entertaining a true economic disaster which will add thousands, possibly millions, to the unemployed and poor (can't wait for the next employment report).

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#322759 - 03/12/20 07:02 PM Re: The coming crash [Re: jgw]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16843
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Them that claim they understand say this one is not going to go away quite as easily as the one Obama had to deal with.


We'll see. The market desperately needed a major adjustment and the virus provided the impetus. Maybe it's the debt as Dana says. Maybe it's just a stutter in the economy and once we get past the virus panic it will all work itself out...?

I'd like to be a fly in Trump's head right now.
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