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#322931 - 03/16/20 08:11 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
History has said otherwise. I don't think, in a highly propagandized, demobilized hard right empire that we've become, that it will happen any time.

The fascists are running to the left of the corporate Dems, now that the lane has been conveniently cleared for them to do so. It's right out of the historical playbook.

Mitt Romney is talking about a UBI for Americans while Pelosi serves up more neoliberal proposals with all the attendant means testing as usual.

Trump will run to the left of the cheap car salesman Biden on social security and medicare. The videos after his lying from last night's debates are trending. Should come back to haunt Biden in the general. And the corporate party is ok with that.

I'm not optimistic for any left wing pheonix. Most people think the democratic party is left for crying out loud.



Edited by chunkstyle (03/16/20 09:19 PM)

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#322932 - 03/16/20 08:15 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17056
Loc: Florida
Quote:
May have had different outcomes with respect to the ACA fights if he got off his arse and gotten in the ring.


Everything about Obama was disappointing. Turns out there was no hope for change from the start. Seems to be a really nice guy though.
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#322936 - 03/16/20 08:52 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17056
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I'm not optimistic for any left wing phoenix. Most people think the democratic party is left for crying out loud.


I don't know if you've been following the news but there are rumours of a stock market crash. Commerce has been practically shut down over the virus fears.

A recession of massive proportions may be underway as I type this. It's entirely possible that the world, as we thought we knew it, no longer exists. President Trump's leadership is going to be severely tested in the months ahead and I believe he's going to come up short.

Something is going to be reborn from these ashes and I think it will be a step towards the Scandinavian model rather than a step away from it.
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#322937 - 03/16/20 09:16 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
The Wiemar republic had 40% democratic socialist before market forces brought about a right wing response to an economic condition.

We have no left wing parties. The Democrats and media have kneecapped the threat of any alternative but a right wing populist response to the coming economic crises.

We are not immune any more than Germany was in the 30's. I see 'Never Trumpers' moving into the democratic party while it sheds what it had of a left.

There are no leftists political alternative capable of taking advantage of the situation ripe for left wing solutions. I'd really like to be wrong here but I don't think so.

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#322939 - 03/16/20 10:25 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: perotista]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: perotista
As for the ACA, the people weren't ready to be taken out of their comfort zone. Numbers would have told the Democrats that. Sure the Democrats would be for it, the Republicans against it, but what about the 40% or so in-between? The non-affiliated. Most were comfortable with what they had. They didn't want the apple cart upset. Sure there needed something done for the uninsured. But how to approach that?


Amazing to watch you ignore industry spox like Potter.
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#322940 - 03/16/20 10:29 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
Seems fitting for today's carnage. I highly recommend the 'Stop Making Sense' album while hunkered





Edited by chunkstyle (03/16/20 10:29 PM)

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#322941 - 03/16/20 10:44 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 718
Interesting conversation going on here. One can tell the ideologues from the pragmatist and the ones who achieve the possible and the ones who try to achieve the impossible when it is impossible and be hog tied for the future. Politics is the art of the possible. I said that before, grab the possible and wait until the impossible is possible.

Now Jeff threw me an interesting question I really hadn't thought about. Do I have an agenda. Ever since Reagan my agenda was to get the national debt lowered, then put on a steady downward path. Since neither major party gives a darn about the ever rising debt, they can't help me. So my agenda is to get people elected that I think will provide good governance. Left or right, center, center right, center left doesn't matter.

Actually, my agenda is more along the lines of a political strategist. How to get folks elected and once elected, reelected. How to win the house and senate and how to keep the house and senate. I want to understand the whys and hows, what took place and how defeats or loss of congress could have been avoided.

Issues and policies I take one at a time and decide whether to support or oppose them my own way by not listening to either party's propaganda. Do I deem it good for the country as a whole or bad for the country as a whole. Notice I said as a whole, not just because it's one or the other party's agenda, not just because one party wants it or the other party doesn't. Is it good for the country as a whole. I actually despise both major parties.

My agenda is good governance, keeping this country secure, safe, prosperous and free. That is my agenda. Which party provides that is irrelevant.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#322942 - 03/16/20 11:41 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Seems fitting for today's carnage. I highly recommend the 'Stop Making Sense' album while hunkered





Love to know how songs about having some groceries (some peanut butter) enough to last a few days will help people who can't breathe.
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

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#322944 - 03/17/20 12:11 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17056
Loc: Florida
Quote:
The Wiemar republic had 40% democratic socialist before market forces brought about a right wing response to an economic condition.
That economic condition was runaway inflation. It was cheaper to burn wheelbarrows of money than to buy coal.

Hitler re-vitalized the German economy. Unfortunately he was also as mad as a March hare.
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#322945 - 03/17/20 12:39 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: perotista]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17056
Loc: Florida
Quote:
My agenda is good governance, keeping this country secure, safe, prosperous and free. That is my agenda. Which party provides that is irrelevant.


Those things should pretty much be the norm. It's a matter of what percentage of Americans get to enjoy that security, safety, prosperity and freedom.

According to the U.S. Census Bureau's 2011 Current Population Report, 46.2 million Americans are considered impoverished – 15 percent of the country's population. Approximately 16.4 million American children – 22 percent of the population younger than 18 – live in poverty.

My agenda is to be sure that every American is secure safe prosperous and free. Not just some of them. Unfortunately there just isn't enough to go around and so some must starve. Part of the human condition y'know...nothing the government can do about it, nor should they be expected to.
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