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#323668 - 03/31/20 09:07 PM FISA IG Report
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7212
Loc: Highlands, Tx
FBI IG Howowitz has a new report on FISA. From testimony before Congress after report on investigation of FISA applications directed at Trump campaign coffee boys, he suggested there was not a coup or program directed solely against Mr Trump because he is Mr Trump. Well now he has released some preliminary info and guess what .... just as I suggested before Howowitz made his statement, I suggested there may have been a more pervasive problem with FISA apps ... it's true.

Read the National Review perspective here IG Horowitz Found ‘Apparent Errors or In...ion He Reviewed
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#323679 - 03/31/20 11:49 PM Re: FISA IG Report [Re: rporter314]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9964
Loc: North San Diego County
Yes, FISA has always been pretty much suspect, like cops confiscating people's stuff and keeping the booty. A lot of "great new tools for law enforcement" need some oversight and regulation by an IG-type.

But so do a LOT of prosecutors: They benefit from racking up convictions, instead of convicting the right people. And there is zero penalty for even serious misconduct.

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#323734 - 04/01/20 07:24 PM Re: FISA IG Report [Re: rporter314]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3334
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I have whined, a lot, about gov out of control. I have also asked the question; "Do you trust your government?" any number of times. This is a serious question and, I think, one that explains much as to what is going on right now. I have often wondered if its possible for gov to establish an agency with one goal in mind, ask gov every time they do something that makes no real sense to anybody. You know, stuff like 20 year long wars, national debts larger than our entire GDP, Healthcare as main source of bankruptcies, etc.

I am becoming, more and more, concerned that OUR government is losing the trust of its citizens. If that is true then we are well on our way to destruction. Its kinda like the fabled walls of China. They have all been breached, but always from the inside.

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#323738 - 04/01/20 07:50 PM Re: FISA IG Report [Re: jgw]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16919
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I am becoming, more and more, concerned that OUR government is losing the trust of its citizens. If that is true then we are well on our way to destruction.


Funny how Marx always gets it right. Shall we go over this again?

The Aristocracy and the Bourgeoisie team up against the much more numerous Proletariet until a revolt is inevitable.

Eventually even the lumpenproletariat are drawn into the fray and forced to take sides.

Destruction or redemption? It is always the proles who are exploited beyond endurance and forced to revolt, never the bougies. Never have they been taxed beyond endurance, never have they been starved and forced to pay their help too much. Read into that what you will. The center has been in control all our lives. Look around and tell me this is the right way to do things.

Oh and...I trust the government. I depend on them for every breath I take.
_________________________
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#323739 - 04/01/20 09:28 PM Re: FISA IG Report [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
I am becoming, more and more, concerned that OUR government is losing the trust of its citizens. If that is true then we are well on our way to destruction.


Funny how Marx always gets it right. Shall we go over this again?

The Aristocracy and the Bourgeoisie team up against the much more numerous Proletariet until a revolt is inevitable.

Eventually even the lumpenproletariat are drawn into the fray and forced to take sides.

Destruction or redemption? It is always the proles who are exploited beyond endurance and forced to revolt, never the bougies. Never have they been taxed beyond endurance, never have they been starved and forced to pay their help too much. Read into that what you will. The center has been in control all our lives. Look around and tell me this is the right way to do things.

Oh and...I trust the government. I depend on them for every breath I take.


Do the proles ever end up getting what they want by violent revolution?
Seems to me the historical record says that they don't, except when that revolution skips the usual violence and moves into organized, focused action.
And that's because the bougies and the aristocrats can't adequately push back against that. They're one-trick ponies, they only know how to answer violence, and they almost enjoy unleashing the clubs, sticks and bullets on the madding throngs, because it justifies their phony boilerplate law and order, and they're able to turn significant portions of the masses against those in revolt by appealing to their fear and speaking to law and order.

Well, hate to say it, but all you revolutionaries...you don't even remotely have your sh!t together enough for organized, focused action.
Most of you are too busy attacking each other.
And even if you weren't, you don't have a focused message, so the only revolution we're likely to see is a replay of 1917 or 1958.
Violence. Blood in the streets, mostly yours.

You won't get what you want. In fact, you'll lose most of what you have still left right now.
The reason the bougies and the aristocrats have done such a bangup job these last forty years is precisely because they organized, and they even used your lefty playbooks against you and organized some more.
Now they've managed to reverse the course of a mighty river of socialism and divert it straight into their own pockets.

If I'm wrong, I'll admit it, but I do not see any organization yet.
I don't see any focus. I see infighting and lackluster action at the polls.

And in the end, if you don't have the numbers at the polls, nothing else matters.
Except total collapse.

And you don't have a game plan to deal with that either.
_________________________
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#323749 - 04/01/20 11:04 PM Re: FISA IG Report [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16919
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Well, hate to say it, but all you revolutionaries...you don't even remotely have your sh!t together enough for organized, focused action.
Most of you are too busy attacking each other.
And even if you weren't, you don't have a focused message, so the only revolution we're likely to see is a replay of 1917 or 1958.
Violence. Blood in the streets, mostly yours.

You won't get what you want.


You don't think the minimum wage will ever rise? You don't think that single payer healthcare will ever become a reality? You don't think that higher education will never be taxpayer subsidised? You don't think we'll ever start to clean up the environment?
We WILL get what we want! Paid sick leave? daycare? As hard as you fight against these things we will keep pushing to make them a reality!

Do you really hate the movement that has brought these things to the forefront so much? you say you like Bernie but you despise his supporters. You seem to hate anyone who calls for change. We seem to offend you terribly as you cling to the past and hope for Obama's houseboy to save the country.

We came close to pulling off an upset this time, we will come closer next time. We will get what we want because the r/evolution will not be denied.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#323753 - 04/01/20 11:17 PM Re: FISA IG Report [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
Well, hate to say it, but all you revolutionaries...you don't even remotely have your sh!t together enough for organized, focused action.
Most of you are too busy attacking each other.
And even if you weren't, you don't have a focused message, so the only revolution we're likely to see is a replay of 1917 or 1958.
Violence. Blood in the streets, mostly yours.

You won't get what you want.


You don't think the minimum wage will ever rise? You don't think that single payer healthcare will ever become a reality? You don't think that higher education will never be taxpayer subsidised? You don't think we'll ever start to clean up the environment?


---As the result of a violent and bloody revolution?
Nope, I don't.

I'll bet you any amount of money that a violent and bloody revolution will be put down hastily, using methods most Americans would never dream of. The Right have been ITCHING for the go signal to help.
See FERGUSON, MISSOURI as the test site.

Those MF-ers were Oath Smellers (Keepers) marching around, shooting and threatening people with the blessings of the local PD.

You seem to be having difficulty here, let me help by asking you directly:
How do you see this revolution playing out?
At the polls? Didn't happen!
If it had, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Alternatives? How do you see it playing out?
In the streets?

You/we/us will be squashed like bugs, all of us will be, even the ones who don't venture out.
And among us lefty gun owners, our homes will be canvassed and we will be forcibly disarmed, possibly the same way law abiding gun owners in NOLA were during Katrina, by unsworn CONTRACTORS, acting "under color of authority"....read: OATH SMELLERS...AGAIN.

You and Chunk seem eager to paint me as the enemy.
I'm not, I'm just painfully aware of the fact that not only don't you have a plan, you don't even understand my questions, so I had to lay them out twice.

You STILL seem to believe that the polls will swing in your favor and you're lashing out at me for telling the truth.
The polls did not swing in your favor, and that means that they didn't swing in MY favor either because I voted the same way you guys did, for Bernie.

Sorry, the truth is, the numbers did not materialize.
So...again...if you have a plan for revolution, let's hear it because so far I hear bupkus.

And you're acting like dickheads because I dared to bring the bad news. Shoot the messenger all you want, it won't change the numbers and it won't change the fact that you guys don't have a Plan B for when the numbers fail.
_________________________
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deepfreezefilms.com

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#323755 - 04/01/20 11:22 PM Re: FISA IG Report [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger


We came close to pulling off an upset this time, we will come closer next time. We will get what we want because the r/evolution will not be denied.


Yes, the upset...the one that I dreamed would happen in FULL...this time. I was almost SURE Bernie was going to utterly destroy every other candidate and make the DNC wet their pants.

Sigh...almost only counts in horseshoes and hand-grenades.

Get it straight guys, I am not the bad news, I am only realizing that it's bad news. I am not giving up on an upset, I am just trying to catch my breath so I will still be here and still be ready next time.

But when you use the word "revolution", you better be very specific.
You're being very vague, at least to these old 1960's ears.
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

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#323756 - 04/01/20 11:28 PM Re: FISA IG Report [Re: Greger]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9964
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
We came close to pulling off an upset this time, we will come closer next time.


But I plan on being dead before that actually happens, and I don't have any kids to benefit from it. We have to make stuff happen NOW, not just get closer to winning. Bernie winning with progressive Democrats in congressional majorities is 100% of the way there, but impossible. Bernie winning with typical Democratic majorities in congress is 80% of the way there. Biden winning with typical Democrats in congressional majorities is 70% of the way. Trump winning would be negative progress.

80% would be nice, but so is 70%. Just look at the risk/reward ratio. It's not worth 10% better if you lose and get nothing. And another 4 yeas of Trump is much worse that nothing.

In particular, if Biden wins and we restore the rule of law then Trump's prison sentence would discourage anyone who comes after him with thoughts of such criminal acts.

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#323795 - 04/03/20 12:37 AM Re: FISA IG Report [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16919
Loc: Florida
Quote:
And you're acting like dickheads because I dared to bring the bad news.
Jefferey, you're the one being confrontational and resorting to name calling. I'm just trying to tell you what I think will happen over the next few decades and why I think it will happen,

Watch how I write the word...r/evolution. Did that go over your shiny little head? I believe society is going to evolve into a social democracy over perhaps the next three decades. This isn't new, I haven't changed.

Did Bernie or any other progressive call for armed insurrection? Nawp. Maybe you were too busy attacking "Bernie Bros" to notice that Sanders called for a political revolution. What that means is a revolution at the ballot box. A social uprising to seize power from the minions of our corporate overlords.

No we didn't have the votes. So the thing to do is give up, right? We'll never have the votes so why try? Let's just vote for who they tell us to vote for and everything will be fine.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#323797 - 04/03/20 01:01 AM Re: FISA IG Report [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
And you're acting like dickheads because I dared to bring the bad news.
Jefferey, you're the one being confrontational and resorting to name calling. I'm just trying to tell you what I think will happen over the next few decades and why I think it will happen,

Watch how I write the word...r/evolution. Did that go over your shiny little head? I believe society is going to evolve into a social democracy over perhaps the next three decades. This isn't new, I haven't changed.

Did Bernie or any other progressive call for armed insurrection? Nawp. Maybe you were too busy attacking "Bernie Bros" to notice that Sanders called for a political revolution. What that means is a revolution at the ballot box. A social uprising to seize power from the minions of our corporate overlords.

No we didn't have the votes. So the thing to do is give up, right? We'll never have the votes so why try? Let's just vote for who they tell us to vote for and everything will be fine.


No, I don't want to give up and a political revolution is a wonderful idea, if we ever manage to get the damn numbers where they need to be.
The one thing I happen to believe would make that damn near impossible however, is another Trump term in office.

I think that is the only area where we disagree.
And yes, my head's shiny...grass doesn't grow on a busy street!
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

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#323799 - 04/03/20 01:44 AM Re: FISA IG Report [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16919
Loc: Florida
Quote:
But I plan on being dead before that actually happens, and I don't have any kids to benefit from it.


You got yours and f*ck everybody else? Me too, dude. I'm livin' the socialist lifestyle! I've got a rich kid and I've got a poor kid and I'm really concerned for the poor one's future. The two have never met.

Quote:
We have to make stuff happen NOW,

Stuff is happening NOW! Socialist stuff. By the Republican administration. Another Great Depression is upon us! Along with a plague. It is from times like these that the greatest leftist movements are built.

Che Lives!
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#323800 - 04/03/20 02:05 AM Re: FISA IG Report [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16919
Loc: Florida
Quote:
And yes, my head's shiny...grass doesn't grow on a busy street!


Mine's not even grey. Hasn't started falling out yet either. I keep it buzzed off so the other old men don't get jealous.

_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#323801 - 04/03/20 03:30 AM Re: FISA IG Report [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
And yes, my head's shiny...grass doesn't grow on a busy street!


Mine's not even grey. Hasn't started falling out yet either. I keep it buzzed off so the other old men don't get jealous.



I have a very dear friend up in Seattle who is 63 and still has a glorious head of hair, and he teases me mercilessly about it.
So...on a scale of 1-10, ten being the worst, you're about a six.
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

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#323803 - 04/03/20 03:46 AM Re: FISA IG Report [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger

Stuff is happening NOW! Socialist stuff. By the Republican administration. Another Great Depression is upon us! Along with a plague. It is from times like these that the greatest leftist movements are built.

Che Lives!


Thing is, with Republicans at the helm, we won't see New Deal stuff, Bernie stuff. The Republicans aren't the least bit concerned about throwing us some socialist paper towels, or even much more than paper towels, but bear in mind how they view socialism.

To them, if they apply a socialist fix, it's a short hop to authoritarian fascism because all they have to do is rotate the vector to the wealthy after they've tossed us our Bounty Quicker Picker Upper.
Not Che, more like Generalissimo Franco, or worse.

Beware Republicans who diddle with socialism..it's like handing blasting caps to a ten year old with antisocial tendencies.

You know he's going to cram them up the cat's butt.
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
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#323804 - 04/03/20 03:48 AM Re: FISA IG Report [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42942
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
...but bear in mind how they view socialism.

Other than saying the social programs that the U.S. DOES have is not socialism, they're completely on-board for corporate socialism. Hmm
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Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#323805 - 04/03/20 03:50 AM Re: FISA IG Report [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42942
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
[Beware Republicans who diddle with socialism..it's like handing blasting caps to a ten year old with antisocial tendencies.

Wouldn't that be akin to giving a 73 year old failed businessman and failure in life the keys to the kingdom which the Republicans have already done?
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#323813 - 04/03/20 04:05 PM Re: FISA IG Report [Re: rporter314]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7212
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Conservatives seem to have a problem understanding some concepts. For instance, they do not comprehend that what many say is racist. I have concluded that means they believe a statement is racist if it means you own slaves. Likewise, socialism to them means communism.

I am not sure if that is simply an issue of ignorance or stupidity. But when pointed out in detail, they still do not git it.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

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#323818 - 04/03/20 07:35 PM Re: FISA IG Report [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
[Beware Republicans who diddle with socialism..it's like handing blasting caps to a ten year old with antisocial tendencies.

Wouldn't that be akin to giving a 73 year old failed businessman and failure in life the keys to the kingdom which the Republicans have already done?


In a word: YES!
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

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#323822 - 04/03/20 07:53 PM Re: FISA IG Report [Re: rporter314]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3334
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I am not questioning the good intentions of those on the far left and supporting, for the most part, Communism and Socialism. However, one can only wonder. The United States, for instance, has been at it for over 200 years. Can anybody tell me of one nation that has lasted that long under the rule of either of those two doctrines? I don't think there are and I tend to believe there is a reason for that.

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#323828 - 04/03/20 09:54 PM Re: FISA IG Report [Re: jgw]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16919
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I tend to believe there is a reason for that.


Absolutely. Society has not yet evolved to a point where those things will work. Evolution can't be forced. For most of our history Monarchies were pretty much the rule of order. Most civilized nations these days have some form of democracy. Many have made the shift successfully into social democracy. We are evolving globally towards being a social society.

The United States of America was the start of the trend. Taking the power from "Royalty" and delivering it into the hands of revolutionaries. Those revolutionaries then created a system they thought immune from despotic rule. A fair and equitable system capable of delivering liberty and justice for all.

Of the people, by the people, and for the people.

Technology, computers, and the internet have created instant communication throughout the world. For once in our history we are truly one people. Everybody has to play nice because everyone else knows exactly what's going on. Some countries haven't evolved as far as others. It's easier for smaller countries to pull off but the USA is coming along slowly.

I betcha M4A gets to be a pretty hot issue after this pandemic.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#323829 - 04/03/20 10:16 PM Re: FISA IG Report [Re: rporter314]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9964
Loc: North San Diego County
This is obviously a Pubic Health crisis: Even Republicans in congress and President Trump have to admit that. Now it's just a matter of figuring out which government is responsible for dealing with it. Trumps keeps on trying to shuffle it off onto Governors so he can aid the butt-kissers and stiff the ones who criticize him. He's still trying to play partisan politics with it, except the two sides aren't Republican versus Democrat, it's Trump worshipers versus Trump atheists.

Public Health has to be a whole world issue, as long as we let people fly all over the place. It especially has to be a federal issue, as people move around the country bringing the virus with them. The response has to be nationwide and uniform. This screams for single-payer. Containment fails badly if you can't track and care for the homeless. The main problem right now is the one man who should be directing this uniform approach fighting that out of sheer incompetence.

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#323835 - 04/03/20 11:08 PM Re: FISA IG Report [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10246
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: Greger
I betcha M4A gets to be a pretty hot issue after this pandemic.

Which is why Trump will be campaigning on it. A salesman busker he is, he ain't an ideologue.
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#323838 - 04/03/20 11:54 PM Re: FISA IG Report [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
He's still trying to play partisan politics with it, except the two sides aren't Republican versus Democrat, it's Trump worshipers versus Trump atheists.


Genius. Pure genius.
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

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#323839 - 04/04/20 12:52 AM Re: FISA IG Report [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16919
Loc: Florida
jeffery, that Trump GIF is gross. I have to quickly scroll away whenever I see that face. To see it convulse like that gives me the heebee jeebees.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#324131 - 04/10/20 01:45 AM Re: FISA IG Report [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger
jeffery, that Trump GIF is gross. I have to quickly scroll away whenever I see that face. To see it convulse like that gives me the heebee jeebees.


But letting him win again doesn't?
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

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#324132 - 04/10/20 02:19 AM Re: FISA IG Report [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16919
Loc: Florida
Of course it does...that's why I didn't want Biden.
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Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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