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#323986 - 04/07/20 10:08 PM national healthcares
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3232
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I thought I would investigate some healthcare in other countries for the heck of it. I found:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Switzerland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Taiwan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Canada

There is a point to this. Bernie, for instance, is fronting for something called Medicare for all, and there are some others. As far as I know nobody has actually done any research into healthcare in other countries. The three above are very different from one another, for instance. Its interesting that Taiwon is based on medicare but they studied 10 other healthcares before they were done. Switzerland was another that did a lot of study of other systems before making their decision.

What is interesting is that Americans suggesting tax supported healthcare have not, as far as I know, investigated a single other system. I am for universal healthcare. I am also for a LOT of study on the subject before deciding to fly at it. This is a big deal and deserves some study, I think.

We could start by the issuance of a personal healthcare card for everybody in the country. That would, I betcha, be a really good start?


Edited by jgw (04/07/20 10:10 PM)

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#324100 - 04/09/20 08:38 AM Re: national healthcares [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9816
Loc: North San Diego County
God help any American politician who says: "We should use the XXXXX system." Where XXXXX is any other country in the world. About 10% of the population would be interested and start reading about that country's system. The other 90% would wrap themselves in the flag and swear that politician was a traitor, a nazi, or a commie.

American exceptionalism is the problem: "America is the best damned country in the world and screw everybody else." That gets in the way of rational analysis.

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#324143 - 04/10/20 07:11 PM Re: national healthcares [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3232
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
This is why it shouldn't be a political solution. Form a genuine committee, with some power, to examine what others are doing, choose the best of each that fit, and then let congress vote on it. The vote will be an "American solution to healthcare" not the work of one of them damned furreners!

Then, maybe, we could also have a Hoover Commission like group too?

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#324159 - 04/11/20 12:50 AM Re: national healthcares [Re: jgw]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16832
Loc: Florida
Quote:
As far as I know nobody has actually done any research into healthcare in other countries


And as far as I know everybody has actually done an enormous amount of research into healthcare in other countries. That's why the information is readily available on wiki...Ya figger Bernie is too stupid to Google it?
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#324231 - 04/11/20 05:39 PM Re: national healthcares [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3232
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I have no idea. My assumption is that everybody was doing their own thing. Bernie, for instance, has had the same healthcare plan for over 30 years and very little of what he wants is new. Also, again as far as I can tell, the term "medicare for everybody" is simply not true. It has very little to do with medicare on several levels.

Currently, for instance, it seems that every scheme is based on some existing system which only needs expanding. I gave three examples of what other countries are doing. I am not sure just how close to any of them are the existing healthcare schemes. Other than they are all supported, in one way or another, by taxes in one degree or another. the current suggested schemes - no so much (except for the extending of obamacare).

All that being said I would still prefer to see a full blowed committee working on this. Just a comfort thing I guess.....

You may, however, be absolutely right, if so then that is a good thing!

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#324240 - 04/11/20 07:07 PM Re: national healthcares [Re: jgw]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16832
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Also, again as far as I can tell, the term "medicare for everybody" is simply not true. It has very little to do with medicare on several levels.
\

How so? The first step is simply lowering the age to qualify for traditional Medicare.

Perhaps you're familiar with Medicare? A lot of old, poor, disabled people like me use it. If you can afford it there is a premium, but if you can't then your state's Medicaid system will pick up the tab for you. People more well off than me can also purchase supplemental policies which will cover the out of pocket expenses I sometimes face.
Generally speaking, my out of pocket expenses are less than the premiums for the supplemental policies. Sometimes I take a hit from hospital "contractors" whose billing is not included in hospital charges or Medicare/Medicaid payments for hospital services.

The US is currently funding and operating three medical systems.

Medicare covers the disabled and all citizens over 65. It's a Federal Program

The VA system covers all veterans and their families, It's Federally funded through the Military.

Medicaid is a State sponsored program to cover the poor and disabled It's partially/substantially funded by the Feds.

And I'm leaving out County healthcare programs that receive Federal funding and even City funded programs for the poor and disabled.

Being old, poor, and disabled I have a particular interest in all this.

M4A would ultimately, pull them together into one gigantic database and clearinghouse for all things health related within the United States.

Like the One Ring.

One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.

If we had a government that was not blinded by partisan hatred we could actually address the issues and get things done. Did you happen to notice just how quickly the government can come up with Trillion$ of dollars when they set their minds to it?
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#324289 - 04/12/20 06:43 PM Re: national healthcares [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3232
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
medicare is fine but takes quite a bit of money when one is through with medigap. My point was that "medicare" kinda leaves a bunch of stuff out. Then, when you get down to the nitti-gritti, little stuff like medigap comes into play. I wonder, therefore, if medicaid is part of the medicare for all or is it swallowed by medicare? I can keep going but see no sense to it. I just think that the very phrase; "Medicare for All" is a bit misleading anyway you look at it. Seems simple but just is not. I am covered by medicare AND the VA and use both. I am, however, not disabled and not poor.

I don't like any proposal that is even a bit tricky. I like Biden's plan to expand Obamacare because we all know what that means and there are no secrets, the other? Not so much. I would also prefer that Obamacare offers a public option and just raises taxes to pay for it instead of individuals ponying up. Actually I am really quibbling on this one but I really wish political promises were better explained rather than cute phrases. It also takes the liberal side and turns that into yet another sneak.

I will also admit this is probably an exercise in wishful thinking. It would seem that politicians really can't help themselves. I consider that too to be personal assumption but suspect there are fellow travelers.

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#324297 - 04/12/20 08:00 PM Re: national healthcares [Re: jgw]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16832
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I wonder, therefore, if medicaid is part of the medicare for all or is it swallowed by medicare?


Medicaid is a state program paid for with state taxes but with a huge Federal assist. M4A would eventually swallow it up. Not right away, but as more people qualify for M4A the need for Medicaid will disappear.

Everyone would get a "Health Card" which would get them medical services anywhere it is presented and the Feds will pay the bill.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#324329 - 04/13/20 03:14 AM Re: national healthcares [Re: jgw]
Hamish Howl Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 567
Loc: Tucson, AZ
I see no reason whatsoever to not do medicare for all as a completely subsidized thing.

It's good for people and it's good for the economy.

The only thing it is NOT good for is the continuing control of the working class by a dozen or so billionaires.
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#324343 - 04/13/20 06:48 AM Re: national healthcares [Re: Hamish Howl]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9816
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
The only thing it is NOT good for is the continuing control of the working class by a dozen or so billionaires.


It's even better for them. It's a matter of Public Health. It's a lot safer for individuals to live in a country where everybody who is sick receives care. Just consider drug-resistant TB: You can get it from the homeless guy you walk by on Wall Street or going to the opera.

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