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#323991 - 04/07/20 10:54 PM Re: Questions [Re: perotista]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: perotista
Trump is like that old showman who thinks there is no such thing as bad publicity. No publicity is bad. Good, bad or indifferent, as long as Trump is the headliner, the star, the most talked about and shown, that's all good in his book.


Trump is like Jim Jones, the suicidal leader of The People's Temple.

He is a flat out CULT leader, all the way... Same tactics, same methodology, same everything.
_________________________
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#323996 - 04/07/20 11:16 PM Re: Questions [Re: rporter314]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 590
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Quote:
But Trump isn't doing himself any good now that he has turned obnoxious and petty during his press conferences on CoronaVirus.

That is precisely what his supporters love about him .... spit in everyone's face ... because ... well ... he is the greatest etc etc


Yes they do. But this goes back to my point about independents. Trump won the White House because he won the independent vote. These swing voters disliked Hillary more than they disliked Trump. History has shown voters usually don't vote for someone they dislike.

Right now you have 27% of independents liking Trump, 40% dislike him with 18% who neither like nor dislike him and 14% not sure. Question 110

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/p8nwhxp50n/econTabReport.pdf

The main reason for their dislike of Trump isn't his policies. They're fairly split evenly, for some, against some. It's his obnoxious, uncouth personality along with his very unpresidential behavior.

One has to remember Trump won the independent vote in 2016 with only 46% voting for him, Hillary received 42% while 12% voted third party, against both. That's some 9 million voters who were so disgusted with both major party candidates they choose a third name on the ballot that they knew nothing about. That they knew couldn't win, but voted for them anyway because their last name wasn't Trump nor Clinton

If you think about that, 54% of independents voted against Trump, 58% against Hillary. Biden is like more than Hillary ever was by independents.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#323999 - 04/08/20 12:23 AM Re: Questions [Re: jgw]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 590
Jeffrey, cult leader or not, this election will boil down to how independents, swing voters, the less to non-partisan, non-affiliated vote views the two major party candidates. Which one they like more than the other.

As of 22 Mar Gallup puts party affiliation at 30% Republican, 30% Democrat, 36% independent. The largest voting block is independents. Now independents can be broken down into three groups, independents lean Republican, independents lean Democratic, pure or true independents with no leans.

Now if you're a statistical nut like me, that boils down to 39% of independent now leaning Democratic, 34% leaning Republican with 27% with no leans. If you add them all up, you'll have 44% of the electorate made up of Democrats and Democratic leaning independents vs. 42% of the electorate made up of Republicans and Republican leaning independents. That leaves 14% of the electorate that are classified as true or pure independents with no leans. They ones you must convince to vote for your candidate. It also shows that independents as a whole are siding with the Democrats although not enough to guarantee election of the Democratic candidate. So winning or nominating a candidate attractive to these independents is important if one wants to win.

Hillary wasn't, she lost. Gore wasn't, he lost, Carter wasn't in 1980, he lost and so too did Humphrey. 1980 really doesn't count as Reagan received 27% of the Democratic base vote when on average a Republican candidate receives less than 10%. Even Democrats had lost faith in Jimmy in 1980.

If you want to know or have a good idea how an election will turnout, you have to look at the candidates through a non-partisan, clear set of glasses, not tinted red nor blue. Easier said than done.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#324036 - 04/08/20 07:55 PM Re: Questions [Re: perotista]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: perotista
Jeffrey, cult leader or not,


Sorry, but it is actually impossible to ignore that aspect.
Or rather, ignore it at your own peril, as large swaths of the German population did once upon a time.
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

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#324038 - 04/08/20 08:37 PM Re: Questions [Re: jgw]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 590
When you've been around as long as I have, you hear that about almost every president. At least since Reagan. The opposite party says the same or something very close. Republicans were calling those who followed Obama as Obama cultist or Obamabots.

So if one has a differing political view, a very partisan political view, is highly loyal to a political party while think the other evil, be it the president or political party or both. That's not uncommon.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#324053 - 04/08/20 11:20 PM Re: Questions [Re: perotista]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7203
Loc: Highlands, Tx
well if we had election by popular vote your analysis may be meaningful, but as we have an electoral college ... not so much. As you said and as you well know, it doesn't matter if CA or NY votes overwhelmingly for the Democrat candidate, what really matters is the one vote which makes a Democrat win in PA.

I am not crunching anything at this time. I'll wait until Oct. Remember it was only 11 days out when Dir Comey killed Sec Clinton's bid.

Where is the electoral map?
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

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#324054 - 04/08/20 11:23 PM Re: Questions [Re: rporter314]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 590
Originally Posted By: rporter314
well if we had election by popular vote your analysis may be meaningful, but as we have an electoral college ... not so much. As you said and as you well know, it doesn't matter if CA or NY votes overwhelmingly for the Democrat candidate, what really matters is the one vote which makes a Democrat win in PA.

I am not crunching anything at this time. I'll wait until Oct. Remember it was only 11 days out when Dir Comey killed Sec Clinton's bid.

Where is the electoral map?


Clinton did it to herself. I've posted the numerous reasons so many times, but it seems Clinton supporters just want to ignore them and put all the blame on someone other than the person who caused her own defeat.

So be it.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#324056 - 04/08/20 11:27 PM Re: Questions [Re: perotista]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: perotista
When you've been around as long as I have, you hear that about almost every president. At least since Reagan. The opposite party says the same or something very close. Republicans were calling those who followed Obama as Obama cultist or Obamabots.

So if one has a differing political view, a very partisan political view, is highly loyal to a political party while think the other evil, be it the president or political party or both. That's not uncommon.


How about when it's a person who spent most of their adult life as a Moonie, a real actual cult?

Quote:
On the afternoon of Nov. 18, 1978, Jim Jones called his followers to the central pavilion of Jonestown, a sprawling outpost in the jungles of Guyana, and ordered them to drink a lethal mixture of cyanide and fruit punch. Over 900 people perished that day, more than a third of them children. As he lay dying of a bullet wound to the head—a less painful way to go than cyanide and one that he probably orchestrated—Jones told his followers that it was “all the media’s fault. Don’t believe them.”


Quote:
As I argue in my upcoming book, The Cult of Trump: A Leading Cult Expert Explains How The President Uses Mind Control (Simon & Schuster), Trump has gotten where he is today in large part because he has exploited tactics straight out of that playbook. These include his grandiose claims, his practice of sowing confusion, his demand for absolute loyalty, his tendency to lie and create alternative “facts” and realities, his shunning and belittling of critics and ex-believers, and his cultivating of an “us versus them” mindset. These are the same methods used by Moon, Jones, and other cult leaders such as L. Ron Hubbard (Scientology), David Koresh (Branch Davidians), Lyndon LaRouche (LaRouche PAC), and, most recently, convicted trafficking felon Keith Raniere (NXVIM).

Take It From a Former Moonie: Trump Is a Cult Leader

I'm sure if you stick around long enough we will hear from some former Scientologists, too.
And I have a lot of real actual personal knowledge of that bunch.

No...sorry, this is not just partisan hackery.
I am actually envious of your position...you never did tell us what you do that allows you to be a secure one-income traditional family that echoes memories of decades past.

But it's definitely not what forms the bulk of today's working class families. You are lucky, you are fortunate, you deserve praise and respect for your ability to have secured your blessings and good fortune.

But in this day and age - - you and your lovely family are the EXCEPTION, not the rule.
And you can take that to the bank because today four in ten working American families cannot cover a four hundred dollar expense even if they are a double income family.
I've linked to that often enough that it's easy to find.

You can afford to laugh it off as mere partisan hackery because with your secure position, little if anything Trump does will negatively impact your future.

And like I said, I am mildly envious, but I mean that as a compliment.
Thing is, it also means that your frame of reference is distorted.
You can't possibly know what it means to be directly impacted.
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

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#324072 - 04/09/20 12:57 AM Re: Questions [Re: perotista]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16843
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Clinton did it to herself. I've posted the numerous reasons so many times, but it seems Clinton supporters just want to ignore them and put all the blame on someone other than the person who caused her own defeat.

As a Clinton supporter I have to agree. We knew she was a crappy candidate going into the race, we knew Republicans had her number.

Had she been elected she would have done a great job, but she was never able to overcome the baggage and her own ineptitude at campaigning.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#324073 - 04/09/20 01:13 AM Re: Questions [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16843
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Take It From a Former Moonie: Trump Is a Cult Leader


I don't necessarily trust the word of a former Moonie. It's like trusting a former Republican.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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