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#324006 - 04/08/20 02:22 PM On Coronavirus vaccines
Integritas Offline
stranger

Registered: 12/01/19
Posts: 6
Sorry, no good news here.

On Coronavirus vaccines:

Human coronaviruses have existed for thousands of years, and we have all contracted one at some stage. 15-30% of common cold and respiratory tract infections are caused by coronaviruses.

Coronavirus vaccines have never been approved for humans, because they have only limited effectiveness and can result in selection/recombination of new, potentially deadly Coronavirus strains.

If a SARS-Cov2 vaccine is approved, it will be what is called a live attenuated vaccine. It will make you sick. It might not make you immune. The risk of recombination and emergence of a new potentially more deadly virus will mean that if you get vaccinated you will probably need to be quarantined.

High risk individuals such as health care workers can benefit from therapeutic SARS-Cov2 antibody treatment, which can be retrieved from blood plasma of recovered individuals, and generated in a lab using cell culture.

Such treatment is being used in Italy and other hot spots using blood plasma sent from China. This kind of therapy is impossible to scale up for the general population.

In short, therapy or vaccine options for SARS-Cov2 are very limited. The best measures that exist remain a strong public health surveillance system with rapid diagnostic testing, and quarantine. Cooperation of government, public health authorities, health care providers and the population is critical.


Reference: Coronaviruses: An Overview of Their Replication and Pathogenesis

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#324009 - 04/08/20 04:05 PM Re: On Coronavirus vaccines [Re: Integritas]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7212
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
It will make you sick
I took a flu shot some 40 years ago and it made me sick as the proverbial dog. My mother got them every year and never so much as had a sniffle.

Quote:
Cooperation of government, public health authorities, health care providers and the population is critical.
The current administration does not have the will to bite the bullet and save as many lives as possible. Of course the advice of my Lt Gov Patrick is more appropriate for Republicans ... weed out the old, people with underlying conditions, and racial minorities ... all a drag on a vibrant capitalistic, Republican, Trumpian, society. A true Darwinian survival of the fittest death match geared for Republicans with guns in their teeth.

A global approach is needed to be most effective.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
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#324031 - 04/08/20 06:42 PM Re: On Coronavirus vaccines [Re: Integritas]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3334
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I posted this someplace else, anyway:
http://archive.is/UIbSl

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#324032 - 04/08/20 07:44 PM Re: On Coronavirus vaccines [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: jgw
I posted this someplace else, anyway:
http://archive.is/UIbSl


Of particular interest:

Quote:
At a moment like this, the urgency of such research is self-evident. But the market has not encouraged the development of drugs for use in acute infections.
The big investment has been in drugs for chronic viral diseases, such as aids and hepatitis B. “If you start looking at acute viral infections”—which hit suddenly and kill you or pass on through—“it’s pretty gloomy,” Einav said of the financial prospects that pharmaceutical companies see.

David Baker, of the Howard Hughes Medical Institute, noted that, although cancer drugs are also expensive to develop and bring to market, “there will always be people dying of cancer.”

But pandemics arrive infrequently and don’t necessarily stay for long—characteristics that make them a commercial liability. “It’s one of those cases where a traditional market economy doesn’t work so well,” Adalja, of Johns Hopkins, said. “Suppose you made a sars antiviral in 2003,” after its 2002-03 run. “You would not have had a return on investment, because sars was gone.”


---->>>>“It’s one of those cases where a traditional market economy doesn’t work so well,”

Apparently that hasn't tempered the will of our current leadership in the slightest.
_________________________
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#324033 - 04/08/20 07:45 PM Re: On Coronavirus vaccines [Re: Integritas]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Integritas
Sorry, no good news here.

On Coronavirus vaccines:



Welcome back to the Rant, glad you're here.
If I'd known you were headed to Phuket I could have introduced you to a writer friend of mine who is, last I heard, working for the main newspaper in Phuket.
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

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#324099 - 04/09/20 08:18 AM Re: On Coronavirus vaccines [Re: Integritas]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9965
Loc: North San Diego County
I read that entire paper, and I actually understand most of it from my training in cell physiology and genetics, along with my work with antibody production.

Yes, SARS-Cov1 died out before any vaccine was finished, so the funding dried up and people moved on to research projects that could get funded. SARS-Cov2 probably will not suffer that fate since it's the second appearance of a novel corona virus and is doing so much economic damage in developed countries. It would be wise to develop a vaccine-making technology that could respond very quickly once a gene sequence was known. That did occur very early because China published it. We don't have to wait for people to develop antibodies and find the segment of viral protein they attack anymore, now that we know the exact sequence of every part of the virus.

The "limited effectiveness" of cold vaccines are simply because there are so many different cold viruses. We could make one against a specific corona virus and it would have no effect on any of the other hundreds of corona viruses. That's why nobody bothers. Likewise, nobody has bothered to make a MERS vaccine because it only attacks camel workers in Saudi Arabia! BTW, it's still around today.

We do make some vaccines against other specific corona viruses for versions that attack some food animals, and they work fine. A SARS-Cov2 vaccine does not have to be a live attenuated strain. Some folks are making a vaccine against spike protein right now. You would not have to inject people with virus at all, just spike protein. That's actually the part of the virus human antibodies can see, so it's pretty likely to work very well.

Actually, I think more than 30 different groups are working on vaccines for different proteins of SARS-Cov2. Some will fail. Some will work. We probably end up with several different vaccines, so even if one mutation occurs and renders a vaccine useless, the other vaccines will still work. This is exactly why flu vaccines contain antigens for more than one flu strain.

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#324106 - 04/09/20 04:38 PM Re: On Coronavirus vaccines [Re: pondering_it_all]
Integritas Offline
stranger

Registered: 12/01/19
Posts: 6
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
I read that entire paper, and I actually understand most of it from my training in cell physiology and genetics, along with my work with antibody production.

Yes, SARS-Cov1 died out before any vaccine was finished, so the funding dried up and people moved on to research projects that could get funded. SARS-Cov2 probably will not suffer that fate since it's the second appearance of a novel corona virus and is doing so much economic damage in developed countries. It would be wise to develop a vaccine-making technology that could respond very quickly once a gene sequence was known. That did occur very early because China published it. We don't have to wait for people to develop antibodies and find the segment of viral protein they attack anymore, now that we know the exact sequence of every part of the virus.

The "limited effectiveness" of cold vaccines are simply because there are so many different cold viruses. We could make one against a specific corona virus and it would have no effect on any of the other hundreds of corona viruses. That's why nobody bothers. Likewise, nobody has bothered to make a MERS vaccine because it only attacks camel workers in Saudi Arabia! BTW, it's still around today.

We do make some vaccines against other specific corona viruses for versions that attack some food animals, and they work fine. A SARS-Cov2 vaccine does not have to be a live attenuated strain. Some folks are making a vaccine against spike protein right now. You would not have to inject people with virus at all, just spike protein. That's actually the part of the virus human antibodies can see, so it's pretty likely to work very well.

Actually, I think more than 30 different groups are working on vaccines for different proteins of SARS-Cov2. Some will fail. Some will work. We probably end up with several different vaccines, so even if one mutation occurs and renders a vaccine useless, the other vaccines will still work. This is exactly why flu vaccines contain antigens for more than one flu strain.


Excellent analysis, thanks. You hit the nail on the head re how funding dried up for Cov-1 vaccine once the scare had passed.

One aspect of Cov vaccines for animals is that if application of the vaccine results in a novel, dangerous viral strain, the whole herd can simply be destroyed. We obviously can't plan vaccination that way with humans.

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#324108 - 04/09/20 05:18 PM Re: On Coronavirus vaccines [Re: Integritas]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Integritas

One aspect of Cov vaccines for animals is that if application of the vaccine results in a novel, dangerous viral strain, the whole herd can simply be destroyed. We obviously can't plan vaccination that way with humans.


The continuing barrage of GOP statements that we should be willing to sacrifice some dead people to save the economy sounds a lot like there are people who are okay with the cattle approach.
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

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#324113 - 04/09/20 07:00 PM Re: On Coronavirus vaccines [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16920
Loc: Florida
...would that it only were a Republican disease....
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#324115 - 04/09/20 07:12 PM Re: On Coronavirus vaccines [Re: Integritas]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7212
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
the whole herd can simply be destroyed.
Doesn't apply to Trump supporters who are impervious to viruses concocted by liberals to unseat the greatest living or dead occupant of the WH.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

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