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#324125 - 04/09/20 11:57 PM Re: First Bernie Sanders Thread 2020 [Re: perotista]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16862
Loc: Florida
Quote:
2016 Donald Trump 36/60%


Trump's numbers are up a bit since then!
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#324126 - 04/10/20 12:21 AM Re: First Bernie Sanders Thread 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16862
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I bet you still think Trump will step down gracefully if he is defeated in November.


You bet me $100 he won't?
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#324127 - 04/10/20 12:36 AM Re: First Bernie Sanders Thread 2020 [Re: Greger]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16862
Loc: Florida
'Return to Normalcy' Not Going to Be Enough to Win Our Support, Young Progressives Tell Joe Biden
Quote:
"[W]e grew up with endless war, skyrocketing inequality, crushing student loan debt, mass deportations, police murders of black Americans and mass incarceration, schools which have become killing fields, and knowing that the political leaders of today are choking the planet we will live on long after they are gone. We've spent our whole lives witnessing our political leaders prioritize the voices of wealthy lobbyists and big corporations over our needs. From this hardship, we've powered a resurgence of social movements demanding fundamental change. Why would we want a return to normalcy? We need a vision for the future, not a return to the past." —Coalition of youth-led progressive organizations


Common Dreams

I just visited with a Millenial friend down in Tampa, she was torn because voting for Biden seems like going against everything she believes. I assured her that it was okay not to vote for Biden but that she should still get out and support the downballot candidates. She just graduated with a poli-sci degree and plans a career in government. She takes her vote very seriously. Like me, she thinks Biden unworthy of it.
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#324128 - 04/10/20 12:58 AM Re: First Bernie Sanders Thread 2020 [Re: Greger]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 603
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
2016 Donald Trump 36/60%


Trump's numbers are up a bit since then!



Yes, they are. Question 111. Trump Likability
Regardless of whether you agree with him, do you like or dislike Donald Trump as a person?

Overall 32% like him, 47% dislike him, 15% neither like nor dislike Trump. But the important number is the like a lot at 16% and dislike a lot at 39%. The somewhat's are iffy. they change all the time. Now history shows folks usually don't vote for someone they dislike. So Trump is way behind the curve here. At least as of today.

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/ogvntw3mu9/econTabReport.pdf

Trump's favorable's 44% vs unfavorable's 51% is an improvement. But he isn't running against Hillary Clinton this time. Question 105A. Biden is at 44% favorable, the same as Trump's, 47% unfavorable, question 85A. Biden is in a lot better position than Hillary even with Trump's improvement. But the most important numbers here are the very unfavorable's. 30% of all Americans view Biden very unfavorable, he isn't going to get any of their votes vs. 42% who view Trump very unfavorable, they won't vote for Trump. Advantage, Biden.

Again the somewhat favorable and somewhat unfavorable are flaky, very changeable whereas the very's change little if at all. All and all, I'd say Biden is in a good position at the moment.
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It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#324129 - 04/10/20 01:18 AM Re: First Bernie Sanders Thread 2020 [Re: Greger]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 603
Originally Posted By: Greger
'Return to Normalcy' Not Going to Be Enough to Win Our Support, Young Progressives Tell Joe Biden
Quote:
"[W]e grew up with endless war, skyrocketing inequality, crushing student loan debt, mass deportations, police murders of black Americans and mass incarceration, schools which have become killing fields, and knowing that the political leaders of today are choking the planet we will live on long after they are gone. We've spent our whole lives witnessing our political leaders prioritize the voices of wealthy lobbyists and big corporations over our needs. From this hardship, we've powered a resurgence of social movements demanding fundamental change. Why would we want a return to normalcy? We need a vision for the future, not a return to the past." —Coalition of youth-led progressive organizations


Common Dreams

I just visited with a Millenial friend down in Tampa, she was torn because voting for Biden seems like going against everything she believes. I assured her that it was okay not to vote for Biden but that she should still get out and support the downballot candidates. She just graduated with a poli-sci degree and plans a career in government. She takes her vote very seriously. Like me, she thinks Biden unworthy of it.


Worthy and unworthy of your vote. I've always said the candidate or candidates must earn my vote. Close enough. I'm one of those who voted third party in 2016, against both Trump and Clinton. Hence I get hassled a lot from Trump supporters that my third party vote was for Clinton and from Clinton supporters my vote was actually a vote for Trump. My reply was both are wrong, my vote was against both as neither major party candidate's vote total went up by one.

Each and everyone of us has our reasons why we vote the way we do. They're valid reasons for us, although they may seem asinine to the very loyal political party folks. For some reason the political party faithful, the very partisan folks think each of us should vote like we're mindless robots. Just because they are, doesn't mean all of have to be.

I think you're way to the left of me political ideological wise. Biden is fine with me and will get my vote. I wouldn't have voted for Sanders if he had become the Democratic nominee. His politics are too far left. I'd vote third party once again just like I did in 2016.

If I were Biden, I'd concentrate on winning the independent vote. They make up approximately 40% of the electorate. A group much larger than Sanders supporters. To do that in my opinion means a more center to center left campaign. A campaign slogan of "A return to sanity and normalcy." I think would be great and enough to win independents if Biden campaigns as such. Bottom line, the Democratic Party is still the larger of the two major parties, if Biden wins the independent vote, he wins the election.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#324130 - 04/10/20 01:43 AM Re: First Bernie Sanders Thread 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
He sacrificed the Puerto Ricans, he's sacrificed children, he's sacrificed Kurds and now he's getting ready to kill you, but you think it's no big deal if he gets another four years.

I just don't get it and never will.
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#324133 - 04/10/20 02:27 AM Re: First Bernie Sanders Thread 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16862
Loc: Florida
And I can't get over your freak out fearmongering, your startin to sound like a Biden cultmember.

I have legitimate fears about the fate of our nation if Biden is elected president. Talking to you about it is like talking to a Trump supporter. You start screeching and making up all manor of third reich conspiracy theories rather than to address a legitimate issue.

Everyone feels that everything will just snap back to normal the minute Biden is elected. I disagree.
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#324135 - 04/10/20 03:23 AM Re: First Bernie Sanders Thread 2020 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 603
Interesting stat, according to RCP averages Biden leads Trump 49-43. But what catches my eye is that in 2016 6% of the total electorate voted third party. The average third party vote is at 4% today with 4% undecided or not sure.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_biden-6247.html

what this means, at least to me is we're not getting the anti both candidates vote this year as we did in 2016. In 2016 polling of the Clinton/Trump race didn't start until June. But in June 2016, 15% were saying they would vote third party instead of choosing between Trump and hillary, which shrunk down to 6% on election day. Still a good sign for a Biden win.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#324138 - 04/10/20 02:11 PM Re: First Bernie Sanders Thread 2020 [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger
And I can't get over your freak out fearmongering, your startin to sound like a Biden cultmember.

I have legitimate fears about the fate of our nation if Biden is elected president. Talking to you about it is like talking to a Trump supporter. You start screeching and making up all manor of third reich conspiracy theories rather than to address a legitimate issue.

Everyone feels that everything will just snap back to normal the minute Biden is elected. I disagree.


That's because you're convinced that "everyone feels that everything will just snap back to normal the minute Biden is elected."

That's on YOU, Greger. I don't think "everything will just snap back to normal the minute Biden is elected."
But I DO think the hemorrhaging will stop and I do think Trump's absence will reap a sigh of relief, not just from Democrats, but from a lot of Republicans and independents, too.

There IS NO NORMAL anymore, so I don't understand why anyone thinks of "normal". But the absence of Trump is like the absence of an infecting organism. The infection may remain for a while but with the removal of the organism, the body gets a chance to muster a defense.

But there is no "normal" anymore.
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

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#324139 - 04/10/20 04:15 PM Re: First Bernie Sanders Thread 2020 [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger
And I can't get over your freak out fearmongering, your startin to sound like a Biden cultmember.


Wait, what?
Biden doesn't have any cult members, remember?
You're even on record as saying that no one really LOVES Joe Biden.
It's the Joe Rogans and Jimmy Dores who are doing the bulk of the freaking out, when they're not being crypto "4 More Years of Trump" pimps...to start "the revolution", of course.

Of course when anyone asks "How do you see this revolution actually playing out?" everyone runs for the exits.

Tell you what, Greger...if someone, anyone...comes up with a detailed plan that lays out the scope, purpose and proposed trajectory of this yearned for "revolution", I am open to hearing it.

The Poles had it laid out, and it was elegant in its simplicity:
They just decided that everyone in the country just needed to go on strike. It took a year and a half, and Jaruzelski became increasingly desperate and agitated, and he even exacted a toll on the Polish people when they refused to end their nationwide strikes, but in the end, it was Jaruzelski who fell, and Lech Walesa was elected President.

Thus the plan does not have to be complicated, not at all!
We COULD JUST refuse to honor Trump's demands that we all go back to shopping and working. Not saying that IS the plan but at least I AM now on record as suggesting one possibility.
If it's the WRONG possibility, if it's a terrible idea, then let's hear some other ones.

But putting Trump back in the White House is without a doubt the absolute stupidest idea I have ever heard.
Putting him back in the White House, even with Dem majorities in both chambers of Congress is STILL the SECOND-most absolute stupidest idea I have ever heard.

Because after 3.5 years of this, most of the public is not in any mood to go through even more of it even if it plays out as a second impeachment and trial.

Trump has DESTROYED the major institutions which could possibly support such an effort, to the point where they are so weak that they, along with the rest of the government, REALLY CAN BE DROWNED in the bathtub.

Drowned in the bathtub by President Oswald Cobblepot and his band of appointed and acting gangster agency heads.

_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

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