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#324330 - 04/13/20 03:17 AM Reinfection of COVID19
Hamish Howl Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 608
Loc: Tucson, AZ
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2...b0UKJRLo6eLwBJU

Apparently, there are now 11 confirmed cases in Korea of people being reinfected with the coronavirus.

I lean toward the guess that it hides in organs (as ebola does in the eyes and herpes does in the spinal cord) and comes back out when the victim's immune system falters.

Which means once a carrier, always a carrier.
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#324341 - 04/13/20 06:16 AM Re: Reinfection of COVID19 [Re: Hamish Howl]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10351
Loc: North San Diego County
Possibly, but a lot of this data can also be interpreted as bad testing. Our PCR tests have a false negative rate of about 30%. In Korea, their criteria for releasing Covid-19 patients is two negative tests a week apart. With a 30% false negative rate, what does this mean? The odds of being declared virus-free after those two tests (but you are really not), is 9%. So our clinical judgement of patient's recovery is highly suspect.

There have been a lot of clinical assumptions about Covid-19 that are just now being reconsidered. For example: It is only a lung infection, so if you have GI symptoms it is not Covid-19. You can rule out the disease with one nasal swab PCR test. You can't get it from food or the fecal-oral route. No need to do fecal DNA tests.

Totally wrong, but it's a lot nicer to do nasal swabs than to take anal ones.

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#324342 - 04/13/20 06:42 AM Re: Reinfection of COVID19 [Re: Hamish Howl]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10351
Loc: North San Diego County
It's also very poor medicine to tell patients to go home and come back if they get significant pneumonia. People that do come back to the hospital do very poorly and patients who end up on ventilators do much worse. Medicine needs to treat patients vigorously so they never develop pneumonia!

There actually is a way to do this. It worked in 1918! We even have actual statistics. Researchers compared the pneumonia and death rates of an infected army camp with a sanitarium that treated their Spanish flu patients with long hot baths every day. The sanitarium numbers were MUCH better than the army camp. They both had decent doctors, good food, bed rest, etc. The big difference was the heat treatment in the sanitarium prevented most patients from advancing into pneumonia. We also see the same effect in Finland, were just about everybody takes saunas to treat chest infections at home.

Apparently Western doctors resist the therapeutic value of hot water much like they resisted the crazy idea that you should wash your hands between examining patients!

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#324363 - 04/13/20 07:47 PM Re: Reinfection of COVID19 [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
It's also very poor medicine to tell patients to go home and come back if they get significant pneumonia. People that do come back to the hospital do very poorly and patients who end up on ventilators do much worse. Medicine needs to treat patients vigorously so they never develop pneumonia!

There actually is a way to do this. It worked in 1918! We even have actual statistics. Researchers compared the pneumonia and death rates of an infected army camp with a sanitarium that treated their Spanish flu patients with long hot baths every day. The sanitarium numbers were MUCH better than the army camp. They both had decent doctors, good food, bed rest, etc. The big difference was the heat treatment in the sanitarium prevented most patients from advancing into pneumonia. We also see the same effect in Finland, were just about everybody takes saunas to treat chest infections at home.

Apparently Western doctors resist the therapeutic value of hot water much like they resisted the crazy idea that you should wash your hands between examining patients!


I sure do hope that extended warm showers confer some benefit because believe it or not we no longer HAVE a tub in the house.
Only showers, with Karen's shower being big enough to park two motorcycles side by side. There used to be a tub but it got ripped out to accommodate handicap accessibility.

Maybe it's time to build a sauna?
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#324367 - 04/13/20 08:11 PM Re: Reinfection of COVID19 [Re: Hamish Howl]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10351
Loc: North San Diego County
I think you could get the same effect with an electric blanket or a space heater in a very small room. Sort of an Arkansas sauna! The idea is to induce an artificial fever of about 104 F, because the innate immune system works better at that temperature. That's actually why we have fevers when the immune system detects an infection.

What is a sauna but a closet with a space heater in it? All the fancy wood paneling and benches are just for efficiency.

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#324373 - 04/13/20 09:07 PM Re: Reinfection of COVID19 [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17279
Loc: Florida
I've got a huge Jaccuzi tub but I dasn't get in it cause I'd never get back out.

Cattle waterers make great soaking tubs!
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#324408 - 04/14/20 01:22 PM Re: Reinfection of COVID19 [Re: Hamish Howl]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10351
Loc: North San Diego County
Yeah, I've seen them online. I could probably pick one up at the local feed store. But my neighbor has an actual Jacuzzi he will give me for free. Maybe worth the hassle of moving it. But I need to put in a pile of solar water panels first. I'm not paying to heat that much water just so I can soak.

I get my first year's electric bill next month, so I will see how well the solar panels are working out. Then I'll think about solar hot water. That's going to be totally DIY. Already got a bunch of old sliding glass doors. I'll need the copper tubing, some lumber, and the EDPM pond liner for the hot water tank.

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#324412 - 04/14/20 01:35 PM Re: Reinfection of COVID19 [Re: pondering_it_all]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10331
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
I'm not paying to heat that much water just so I can soak.

A person could heat a hot tub with a Biochar+Energy System and make money doing it...
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To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
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#324414 - 04/14/20 02:18 PM Re: Reinfection of COVID19 [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10331
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
I'm not paying to heat that much water just so I can soak.

A person could heat a hot tub with a Biochar+Energy System and make money doing it...

In case you just sneezed "horsesh!t" under your breath, heating 200 gallons of water with a temperature rise of 55 degrees F using a biochar making heater would consume about a dollar's worth of pellets and make about four dollars worth of biochar.

It would also sequester some 15 pounds of atmospheric CO2, if you put it in your garden.
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To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
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#324415 - 04/14/20 02:26 PM Re: Reinfection of COVID19 [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Then I'll think about solar hot water. That's going to be totally DIY. Already got a bunch of old sliding glass doors. I'll need the copper tubing, some lumber, and the EDPM pond liner for the hot water tank.


Yeah, solar water heat is almost embarrassingly easy to do, at least out here on the Sunny West Coast anyway.
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