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#324416 - 04/14/20 02:27 PM Re: Reinfection of COVID19 [Re: logtroll]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
I'm not paying to heat that much water just so I can soak.

A person could heat a hot tub with a Biochar+Energy System and make money doing it...


I see another great opportunity!
_________________________
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#324417 - 04/14/20 02:38 PM Re: Reinfection of COVID19 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10333
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
I'm not paying to heat that much water just so I can soak.

A person could heat a hot tub with a Biochar+Energy System and make money doing it...

I see another great opportunity!

For everybody! The great Democratization of Capitalism!!
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#324420 - 04/14/20 04:35 PM Re: Reinfection of COVID19 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10351
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
solar water heat is almost embarrassingly easy to do, at least out here on the Sunny West Coast anyway.


Florida, too. For a very long while most people in South Florida had solar hot water heaters on their roofs. It is so sunny, even systems with just a tank and no panels worked.

If anybody is interested "1000 dollar solar water heater" in a web search gets you to a great site with many DIY projects that have all been working for their builders.

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#324685 - 04/23/20 03:55 PM Re: Reinfection of COVID19 [Re: Hamish Howl]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10351
Loc: North San Diego County
Journalists love to find scary quotes, and there are plenty of experts out there who want to include in their remarks some cautionary statements. But all these quotes about reinfection and non-immunity are just that. From what we know about other corona viruses, including SAR-COV1, people do develop IgM, IgG, and IgA antibodies, IgG sticks around for a few years (long enough for a vaccine to be available), and people with IgG do not get reinfected.

Sure, there are exceptions. The immune system is very complex, and we have autoimmune diseases that screw it up, patients taking immunosuppresants, and people with AIDS. So there will be exceptions. But those will most likely be rare. From a Public Health point of view, people get infected, develop antibodies, and then are immune for some number of years.

Several antiviral drugs look promising. That VA retrospective study that said more people died with hydroxychloroquine than without was garbage: They gave hydroxychloroquine to the sickest of the sick, way too late for a drug that helps prevent virus replication. They also gave no zinc, which is the whole point of using the zinc ionophore, hydroxychloroquine.

The early remdesivir studies look very good, and at least one of those is a double-blind study with a decent experimental design. And finally, patients who develop cytokine storm and go into ARDS have a standard RA immune system modifier drug that selectively knocks out interleukin-6 to calm the storm without interfering with their ability to develop antibodies.

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#324689 - 04/23/20 06:09 PM Re: Reinfection of COVID19 [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17279
Loc: Florida
Florida has been woefully slow about utilizing the vast amount of sunshine that beats down on our heads.

When I was a kid there were still a few of the old school rooftop water heaters in town but everything was going electric back then. There was a resurgence of them in the 80s with more modern panels and pumps, but that soon died out as electric and gas units were made more efficient.

I reckon they still sell em? It aint something anybody but Chunkstyle ever talks about.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#324696 - 04/23/20 07:25 PM Re: Reinfection of COVID19 [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Journalists love to find scary quotes, and there are plenty of experts out there who want to include in their remarks some cautionary statements. But all these quotes about reinfection and non-immunity are just that. From what we know about other corona viruses, including SAR-COV1, people do develop IgM, IgG, and IgA antibodies, IgG sticks around for a few years (long enough for a vaccine to be available), and people with IgG do not get reinfected.

Sure, there are exceptions. The immune system is very complex, and we have autoimmune diseases that screw it up, patients taking immunosuppresants, and people with AIDS. So there will be exceptions. But those will most likely be rare. From a Public Health point of view, people get infected, develop antibodies, and then are immune for some number of years.

Several antiviral drugs look promising. That VA retrospective study that said more people died with hydroxychloroquine than without was garbage: They gave hydroxychloroquine to the sickest of the sick, way too late for a drug that helps prevent virus replication. They also gave no zinc, which is the whole point of using the zinc ionophore, hydroxychloroquine.

The early remdesivir studies look very good, and at least one of those is a double-blind study with a decent experimental design. And finally, patients who develop cytokine storm and go into ARDS have a standard RA immune system modifier drug that selectively knocks out interleukin-6 to calm the storm without interfering with their ability to develop antibodies.


I am not entirely sure but I could swear I heard that there were two separate VA studies, so it is possible they screwed up one of them, or even both. I'll have to check again, because that's right down our alley, what with Karen and all. If that drug is dangerous, I'd be hesitant about them giving it to her if she got sick.

Hate to say it but it looks as if the Remdesivir study is looking lke a bust, according to leaked data from the Gilead Pharmaceuticals study.

Quote:
“A draft document was provided by the authors to WHO and inadvertently posted on the website and taken down as soon as the mistake was noticed. The manuscript is undergoing peer review and we are waiting for a final version before WHO comments,” said WHO spokesperson Tarik Jasarevic.


Gilead is pushing back, however. So maybe it might be another case of jumping the gun?

Quote:
According to Gilead spokesperson Amy Flood, the company believes “the post included inappropriate characterization of the study” since it cannot “enable statistically meaningful conclusions” since it was stopped too early. She added that “trends in the data suggest a potential benefit for remdesivir, particularly among patients treated early in disease.”

“Many studies are being run to test remdesivir, and this one will not be the final word,” Stat reports.
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

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#324702 - 04/24/20 05:05 AM Re: Reinfection of COVID19 [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10351
Loc: North San Diego County
It's tricky: When you are testing an antiviral, you need subjects that have some symptoms but not ready to go to the hospital. You give the drug to half of them and give a placebo to the other half using a double blind process. Then you see what the outcome is. If the antiviral works, then most of the patients who received it never have to go to the hospital. But most patients with symptoms never have to go to the hospital anyway. So you might see something like 15% in a certain age group go with placebo, versus 5% go with the drug. That would be a huge result. It may be a little more subtle.

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#325048 - 05/02/20 06:28 PM Re: Reinfection of COVID19 [Re: Hamish Howl]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3603
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Apparently the reinfections in South Korea weren't. If you google "south korea covid-19 reinfection" you will find a lot of stuff like:
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article242432561.html

Basically - no reinfections........

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#325063 - 05/03/20 12:35 AM Re: Reinfection of COVID19 [Re: jgw]
GreatNewsTonight Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/27/20
Posts: 264
Yes, the reinfections were never proven. Hopefully they are not occurring.
-------
About the VA study: while I haven't read it, it is true that the objection was made that the subjects who received HCQ were sicker, but I also read somewhere that even when adjusted for that, the effect of poorer outcomes for the treated cohort remained. And there's been other studies showing no efficacy of HCQ. By now, I have little hopes for HCQ.
-------
About remdesivir, it does seem like a true RCT has shown advantage although modest.


Edited by GreatNewsTonight (05/03/20 12:38 AM)
_________________________
Please take COVID-19 seriously; don't panic but don't deny it; practice social distancing (stay 6ft from people); wash your hands a lot, don't touch your face, don't gather with too many people, so that you help us contain it.

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#325113 - 05/03/20 07:26 PM Re: Reinfection of COVID19 [Re: Hamish Howl]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3603
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Given the number of ongoing investigations and tests I fully expect better 'stuff' down the line. My fond hope is that more will be available when I get infected. I fully expect to be infected, unless they actually come up with a vaccine before infection. Either way I am in a pretty good place to be waiting. My entire county has had a whole 18 covid-19 infections so far and 16 of those have been cured. The real problem is testing. That's been the main problem since the start of this thing.

I have often wondered why Jackass Trump has fought testing with such vigor and sly. It really doesn't make much sense. It actually seems like he wants more people to die! While not true in Washington state it would also seem that the majority of cases, that die, are the elderly, the poor, and the colored. If that is true then, I guess, that means that the answer is that he is trying to just kill off the opposition. Its kinda like all the folks that are marching to do away with the efforts to contain and slow down Covid-19. One of the things they seem to love to do is to not wear any protection, except for being armed, and mass together in large groups. Jackass Trump, obviously, is supporting these efforts in a desperate bid to rebuild the economy before election. On the other hand I am sure that there are a lot of these so-called protestors are going to get the virus and some will die. I don't think he really wants to kill off his own supporters too?
Just another thing I just do not get!

There are constant reports of these protestors dying due to Covid-19 but this hasn't slowed them down even a little bit. It boggles........

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