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#325392 - 05/08/20 06:55 PM covid-19 cure
jgw Online   content
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3451
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
This is a link to a search for postings in the last 24 hours for "covid-19 cure". I just thought I would take a look. the results are pretty interesting. I particularly like the tea cure from the president of Madagascar.

Google Search - covid-19 cure




Edited by Jeffery J. Haas (05/08/20 09:00 PM)
Edit Reason: Fixed LINK

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#325397 - 05/08/20 07:20 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
GreatNewsTonight Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/27/20
Posts: 264
Originally Posted By: jgw
This is a link to a search for postings in the last 24 hours for "covid-19 cure". I just thought I would take a look. the results are pretty interesting. I particularly like the tea cure from the president of Madagascar.

Google Search - covid-19 cure



They got nothing on us. Our stable genius of a president has already discovered the ultimate cure: intravenous Lysol plus a long UV light up your butt. It actually works. It does kill the virus, since it kills the host, then the virus dies out as well as the virus needs live cells to proliferate.


Edited by Jeffery J. Haas (05/08/20 09:01 PM)
_________________________
Please take COVID-19 seriously; don't panic but don't deny it; practice social distancing (stay 6ft from people); wash your hands a lot, don't touch your face, don't gather with too many people, so that you help us contain it.

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#325403 - 05/08/20 09:38 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10124
Loc: North San Diego County
Funny story about artemisia: It's a traditional Chinese medicine antibacterial, and has been used for centuries. A Chinese doctor decided to test it in proper fashion against malaria. It works, and she won the Nobel Prize for Medicine!

My wife has used it sometimes when her unknown Lyme-like disease flairs up. It actually works for that, which suggests it may be some kind of microbial parasite she picked up in her Veterinary Pathology work. Nobody has been able to diagnose it, and she's tried many times. Maybe because it's almost never seen in humans.

One thing those tonic drinkers might want to know is that you should only use it for a few weeks, at least at the dosage my wife takes.

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#325408 - 05/08/20 11:39 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Funny story about artemisia: It's a traditional Chinese medicine antibacterial, and has been used for centuries. A Chinese doctor decided to test it in proper fashion against malaria. It works, and she won the Nobel Prize for Medicine!

My wife has used it sometimes when her unknown Lyme-like disease flairs up. It actually works for that, which suggests it may be some kind of microbial parasite she picked up in her Veterinary Pathology work. Nobody has been able to diagnose it, and she's tried many times. Maybe because it's almost never seen in humans.

One thing those tonic drinkers might want to know is that you should only use it for a few weeks, at least at the dosage my wife takes.


My niece's husband contracted Lyme Disease, a pretty bad case of it.
Can you give me a link to the actual stuff your wife uses so I can recommend it to him, please?
_________________________
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#325433 - 05/09/20 06:00 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: GreatNewsTonight]
jgw Online   content
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Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3451
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Was that before, or after, it was just going to disappear?

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#325484 - 05/10/20 04:30 AM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10124
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
Can you give me a link to the actual stuff your wife uses so I can recommend it to him, please?


Hopefully he got treated with doxycycline or similar antibiotic for the acute infection.

I'm pretty sure she gets it on Amazon. It's called:

Swanson Full Spectrum Wormwood Herbal Supplement - 425 mg

It's from Artemisia annua


Edited by pondering_it_all (05/10/20 04:33 AM)

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#325498 - 05/10/20 08:27 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Quote:
Can you give me a link to the actual stuff your wife uses so I can recommend it to him, please?


Hopefully he got treated with doxycycline or similar antibiotic for the acute infection.

I'm pretty sure she gets it on Amazon. It's called:

Swanson Full Spectrum Wormwood Herbal Supplement - 425 mg

It's from Artemisia annua


The VA has been taking pretty good care of him but I sent him the link anyway. His stress is exacerbating the issue right now.
This guy...if you met him, you'd never think he was sick at all...he's definitely what some women would label a "hunk".

And he IS a hunk...he's a great big fellow, lots of muscles, good looking. My niece, of course, thinks the sun rises and sets around him.

But losing his job amid the pandemic has probably hit him pretty bad, I'm afraid.
_________________________
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#325504 - 05/10/20 08:47 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10124
Loc: North San Diego County
That artemisa seems to work pretty well for the continuing symptoms some Lyme sufferers get after their acute treatment. This usually takes the form of cyclic illness, which may be autoimmune, or it may be a sequestered infection or parasite coming out of hiding now and than. In my wife's case, she had a tubal ligation and asked the surgeon to have a look around in her abdomen while he was in there. He noted a active lesion and adhesions, but nobody has ever been able to culture anything. I guess we'll find out at her autopsy!

Around here doctors are threatened with loss of their license if they actually try to help these folks.

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#325522 - 05/10/20 10:56 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all


Around here doctors are threatened with loss of their license if they actually try to help these folks.


WHAT????
_________________________
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#325612 - 05/12/20 07:51 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
CPWILL Offline
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Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 423
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all


Around here doctors are threatened with loss of their license if they actually try to help these folks.


WHAT????


Hooray, Government!
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Winter Is Coming

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#325617 - 05/12/20 10:40 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: CPWILL]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17044
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Hooray, Government!


Exactly. Doctors operate under a very strict set of rules. It has to be that way.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#325696 - 05/15/20 05:11 AM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10124
Loc: North San Diego County
This kind of medical board action counters hundreds of cases of snake-oil salesmen for each case where they make a mistake. They are mostly right, but likely not in this case.

My wife may actually have something weird, being a veterinary pathologist. She's participated in all sorts of strange necropsies, including one I observed on an elephant. Whatever she has may be something that jumped from a animal and is never seen in America. (I don't think she ever did one on a pangolin!)

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#325703 - 05/15/20 03:27 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
Ujest Shurly Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 646
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
Who knows anything about this STI-1499 and its effectiveness at protection us from SARS-CoV-2?

California biopharmaceutical company claims coronavirus antibody breakthrough

WARNING, Danger, Danger Will Robinson :doh: - the above is a FAUX NEWS Article
_________________________
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Now, get off my grass!

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#325709 - 05/15/20 06:40 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
jgw Online   content
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3451
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I tend to keep a watch on India times for info on vaccines and cures. They do a good job and there are no politics to piss me off. This one is 5 hours old:

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life...?picid=75760200

For no reason I will add this one too:
https://www.sciencealert.com/we-finally-have-a-way-to-convert-donor-blood-into-a-universal-type

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#325722 - 05/15/20 08:40 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: Ujest Shurly]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10124
Loc: North San Diego County
What that fox news article failed to mention is that monoclonal antibodies are passive immunity: The "immunity" only lasts as long as those antibodies do, which is maybe a month or so. This treatment does not teach your immune system how to make the antibodies, which would last years (or maybe a lifetime). So as long as the virus is still out there, you could catch it again and need another monoclonal antibody treatment. And again. And again...

Sort of the perfect product, for the company making it. But getting a vaccination would be much better protection. Until then, though, this treatment would be great for patients in the early viral replication phase, or for prophylaxis.

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#325723 - 05/15/20 09:06 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10124
Loc: North San Diego County
That Times of India article makes it sound as if the virus is mutating to become more deadly and to present more symptoms. Not true. It is mutating, but in places on the RNA strand that make little difference. If it did mutate on the spike protein enough to make vaccines ineffective, the spike protein probably would not work to get it into the ACE II receptor. So such mutations probably have occurred already, but there is very high selective pressure for it not to spread. (RNA viruses do tend to mutate a lot because they don't have the corrective capabilities of DNA.)

All those "new" symptoms are not new, just rare or not well-reported. For example the GI symptoms unreported led a lot of American doctors to rule out Covid-19 with any patient reporting diarrhea. But one report did say that 50% of Wuhan patients did report diarrhea as their first symptom. This wasn't in some early reports, and some reports say 5%. I don't know why. Maybe the food sanitation in Wuhan makes diarrhea so common they didn't consider a symptom? Maybe it's a cultural taboo to mention it?

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#325727 - 05/15/20 10:06 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: pondering_it_all]
GreatNewsTonight Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/27/20
Posts: 264
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Maybe the food sanitation in Wuhan makes diarrhea so common they didn't consider a symptom? Maybe it's a cultural taboo to mention it?


The food sanitation in Wuhan?

The pics I've seen of Wuhan make it look like a major, modern city. One never knows, though, in terms of differences between the shiny downtown and poorer areas, but I'd be surprised if such a developed-looking city had issues with widespread diarrhea to the point of masking the symptoms of a new infection.



_________________________
Please take COVID-19 seriously; don't panic but don't deny it; practice social distancing (stay 6ft from people); wash your hands a lot, don't touch your face, don't gather with too many people, so that you help us contain it.

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#325750 - 05/16/20 05:00 AM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: GreatNewsTonight]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: GreatNewsTonight
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Maybe the food sanitation in Wuhan makes diarrhea so common they didn't consider a symptom? Maybe it's a cultural taboo to mention it?


The food sanitation in Wuhan?

The pics I've seen of Wuhan make it look like a major, modern city. One never knows, though, in terms of differences between the shiny downtown and poorer areas, but I'd be surprised if such a developed-looking city had issues with widespread diarrhea to the point of masking the symptoms of a new infection.





The pics I saw of Moscow bring to mind a modern city as well but if you get about five or six miles outside the metro area, it's the 19th century with the occasional rusted Lada and outdoor plumbing.

At least that's how it was in 1990.
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

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#325859 - 05/18/20 09:01 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
jgw Online   content
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3451
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
here is a list of top 8 vaccines by WHO. 3 of these are already in phase 2. So far they all seem to be working fine.

https://www.timesnownews.com/health/arti...ndidates/593374

Then there is the Trump Operation Warp Speed which is going to quickly give us all a functional covid-19 vaccine. The interesting thing about this one is that he seems to have hi-jacked the entire world supported search for the Covid-19 vaccine. Same 100 efforts, etc. which have been going on for some time but, now, its all American and Trump is in charge! Amazing! (I suspect there are one or two who might take exception to this one)

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#325897 - 05/20/20 02:14 AM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
GreatNewsTonight Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/27/20
Posts: 264
Originally Posted By: jgw
here is a list of top 8 vaccines by WHO. 3 of these are already in phase 2. So far they all seem to be working fine.

https://www.timesnownews.com/health/arti...ndidates/593374

Then there is the Trump Operation Warp Speed which is going to quickly give us all a functional covid-19 vaccine. The interesting thing about this one is that he seems to have hi-jacked the entire world supported search for the Covid-19 vaccine. Same 100 efforts, etc. which have been going on for some time but, now, its all American and Trump is in charge! Amazing! (I suspect there are one or two who might take exception to this one)


If Trump succeeds in fostering a warp-speed delivery of an effective vaccine by late October he will win re-election in a landslide.
_________________________
Please take COVID-19 seriously; don't panic but don't deny it; practice social distancing (stay 6ft from people); wash your hands a lot, don't touch your face, don't gather with too many people, so that you help us contain it.

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#325902 - 05/20/20 03:30 AM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: GreatNewsTonight]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: GreatNewsTonight

If Trump succeeds in fostering a warp-speed delivery of an effective vaccine by late October he will win re-election in a landslide.


Ummm, his refusal to act in a coordinated and timely manner has thus far cost us several trillion dollars and contributed to erasing the entire economic recovery and has plunged us into Great Depression v2.0 and just because he finally pushed to get a cure, you think he will be reelected?

I don't think so.
Had he ACTED in a coordinated and timely manner from the get-go I'd be in agreement with you.
Here on out, whatever he does, regardless of the result, is still shutting the barn after the horses and cows have escaped.
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

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#325906 - 05/20/20 04:35 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
GreatNewsTonight Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/27/20
Posts: 264
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: GreatNewsTonight

If Trump succeeds in fostering a warp-speed delivery of an effective vaccine by late October he will win re-election in a landslide.


Ummm, his refusal to act in a coordinated and timely manner has thus far cost us several trillion dollars and contributed to erasing the entire economic recovery and has plunged us into Great Depression v2.0 and just because he finally pushed to get a cure, you think he will be reelected?

I don't think so.
Had he ACTED in a coordinated and timely manner from the get-go I'd be in agreement with you.
Here on out, whatever he does, regardless of the result, is still shutting the barn after the horses and cows have escaped.



It's not how you and I perceive him. It's how the low information voters perceive him. They will think of him as the savior of the nation.
_________________________
Please take COVID-19 seriously; don't panic but don't deny it; practice social distancing (stay 6ft from people); wash your hands a lot, don't touch your face, don't gather with too many people, so that you help us contain it.

Top
#325907 - 05/20/20 04:42 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: GreatNewsTonight]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: GreatNewsTonight
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: GreatNewsTonight

If Trump succeeds in fostering a warp-speed delivery of an effective vaccine by late October he will win re-election in a landslide.


Ummm, his refusal to act in a coordinated and timely manner has thus far cost us several trillion dollars and contributed to erasing the entire economic recovery and has plunged us into Great Depression v2.0 and just because he finally pushed to get a cure, you think he will be reelected?

I don't think so.
Had he ACTED in a coordinated and timely manner from the get-go I'd be in agreement with you.
Here on out, whatever he does, regardless of the result, is still shutting the barn after the horses and cows have escaped.



It's not how you and I perceive him. It's how the low information voters perceive him. They will think of him as the savior of the nation.


The low information voters who are out of work and hanging on by a thread, and picking up the pieces of their broken lives while other countries are now edging toward relative safety and security?

Yeah, you're right...they are low information votes but even low information voters are going to get the impression that they got screwed badly.

No, not by Democrats doing nothing, for sure.
But it is now up to the Democrats to consider their messaging when presenting this to the people.
Normalizing abnormal sh!t may be the order of the day but orders like that don't age well when little or nothing changes for the better.

There is no way even low information voters can be told that what they are looking at in the coming months is any kind of normal, unless they are already part of Trump's hardcore base.

And there isn't a thing we can do about that one third of the nation.
You can't fix that kind of stupid, you can only vote it out of power, which is what will happen.
_________________________
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#325910 - 05/20/20 06:18 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: GreatNewsTonight]
jgw Online   content
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Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3451
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I fear you are mistaking "fostering" with "claiming to foster" as he is doing absolutely nothing, other than trying to hijack the several month's worldwide effort to find a vaccine for Covid-19, ie. claim that which he has little or nothing to do with.

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#325915 - 05/20/20 08:21 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
GreatNewsTonight Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/27/20
Posts: 264
Originally Posted By: jgw
I fear you are mistaking "fostering" with "claiming to foster" as he is doing absolutely nothing, other than trying to hijack the several month's worldwide effort to find a vaccine for Covid-19, ie. claim that which he has little or nothing to do with.


Yes, claiming to foster is right, I should have better specified it. Again, far from me to defend Trump. I'm just saying, he will be perceived as the savior, regardless of it being unjustified. He kept talking about Operation Warp Speed, and kept saying 12 to 18 months to get a vaccine is unacceptable... if he gets lucky enough that an effective vaccine does miraculously get produced and distributed in record time, even if it was not his doing, he will take credit for it and the gullible mass will believe it and will re-elect him.

I certainly hope he is not re-elected, even if a vaccine comes along fast. I hope for a vaccine to come along fast, but I hope this doesn't result in Trump being re-elected. I'm afraid it will, though.
_________________________
Please take COVID-19 seriously; don't panic but don't deny it; practice social distancing (stay 6ft from people); wash your hands a lot, don't touch your face, don't gather with too many people, so that you help us contain it.

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#325917 - 05/20/20 10:09 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10124
Loc: North San Diego County
He hedges his bets very carefully, by promoting everything. Remember, one of the first things he promoted was "everybody get infected". So if containment failed miserably and all the vulnerable died, when we attained herd immunity he could take credit for his "difficult decision".

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#325927 - 05/21/20 05:07 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: GreatNewsTonight]
jgw Online   content
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3451
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
He WILL get re-elected unless he is called, by Biden on every one of these things. He is is the president and presidents tend to get all the credit or not. I suspect the easiest is for Biden starts to call him "The Liar Trump" which would enrage the already enraged but get it across.

I know, not gonna happen - Dems are too civilized I think?

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#325928 - 05/21/20 05:15 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: GreatNewsTonight]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: GreatNewsTonight
Originally Posted By: jgw
I fear you are mistaking "fostering" with "claiming to foster" as he is doing absolutely nothing, other than trying to hijack the several month's worldwide effort to find a vaccine for Covid-19, ie. claim that which he has little or nothing to do with.


Yes, claiming to foster is right, I should have better specified it. Again, far from me to defend Trump. I'm just saying, he will be perceived as the savior, regardless of it being unjustified. He kept talking about Operation Warp Speed, and kept saying 12 to 18 months to get a vaccine is unacceptable... if he gets lucky enough that an effective vaccine does miraculously get produced and distributed in record time, even if it was not his doing, he will take credit for it and the gullible mass will believe it and will re-elect him.

I certainly hope he is not re-elected, even if a vaccine comes along fast. I hope for a vaccine to come along fast, but I hope this doesn't result in Trump being re-elected. I'm afraid it will, though.


This so called "Operation Warp Speed" sounds like just another phony scam, like all the ones he used to cook up on "The Apprentice".
Have none of you ever watched the show?
It sounds like "The Apprentice" and it sounds like his vaunted deal with North Korea. It's just one more empty scam he promised to his faithful, and they keep falling for them one after another.

But we aren't that blind, are we?
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

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#325930 - 05/21/20 05:48 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
I just watched the Tom Hanks movie "Sully" last night and it almost gave me a lump in my throat for a moment because it made me realize just how badly we NEEDED a "Captain Sully" moment in this pandemic.

America desperately needed a "Captain Sully" to safely land us in the Hudson, with the 1200 first responders all rushing up from the water, from the air, from the harbor, all those helping hands reaching out to save all 155 passengers from our "aircraft" after Sully did his perfect "Forced Water Landing".



Instead we have a 21st Century version of Captain Ahab, with Obama forced into the role of the whale.
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

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#325955 - 05/22/20 05:42 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
jgw Online   content
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3451
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
The oxford vaccine failed. Here is an update on some other vaccines which have not.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life...?picid=75872691

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#325994 - 05/23/20 06:55 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
jgw Online   content
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3451
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
China promises their covid-19 vaccine to the world
https://www.bloombergquint.com/quicktake...ld-go-quicktake

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#325999 - 05/23/20 10:00 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10124
Loc: North San Diego County
Even if the Oxford vaccine failed, they have the infrastructure and Big Pharma connections in place. When they get a hold of one that does work (from some university or non Big Pharma rival) they can run with it. There are so many vaccines in the works, it's highly likely they can license one that does work.

I've done some antibody production work for research purposes, decades ago. It isn't all that difficult. We succeeded in making horse and goat anti-dog lymphocyte antibodies and failed when we tried to make rabbit anti-morphine antibody.

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#326015 - 05/24/20 10:43 AM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: pondering_it_all]
GreatNewsTonight Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/27/20
Posts: 264
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Even if the Oxford vaccine failed, they have the infrastructure and Big Pharma connections in place. When they get a hold of one that does work (from some university or non Big Pharma rival) they can run with it. There are so many vaccines in the works, it's highly likely they can license one that does work.

I've done some antibody production work for research purposes, decades ago. It isn't all that difficult. We succeeded in making horse and goat anti-dog lymphocyte antibodies and failed when we tried to make rabbit anti-morphine antibody.


I wouldn't be so sure of the "highly likely" part. Remember, a virus that hasn't mutated much, the HIV, has been elusive to all vaccine efforts for 30 years. And the coronaviruses that are responsible for part of the common cold collective, do not seem very prone to being susceptible to vaccines, either. The SARS an MERS vaccines never got going and had safety issues.

Sure, we all hope for a safe and effective vaccine, but will we get one? It's still up in the air.
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#326018 - 05/24/20 06:04 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: pondering_it_all]
jgw Online   content
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Registered: 05/22/06
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Loc: Port Angeles, WA
The Oxford vaccine did fail but they are now back to the drawing boards and forward with phase 1 again!

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#326097 - 05/26/20 02:23 AM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
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One of the other DNA virus efforts just reported they made several different vaccines from different parts of the spike protein. They tested on monkeys (like Oxford) and ALL vaccine recipients developed IgG. Some vaccines were VERY effective. Then they challenged the vaccinated monkeys with large viral loads. None got sick. The very effective vaccine ones never had any measurable virus. The less effective vaccine ones had asymptomatic cases with positive PCR throat swabs.

So I think we got this, as far as monkeys go.

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#326102 - 05/26/20 09:19 AM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Nice Science article came out today that reported T-cells responding to Covid-19 infections. That's pretty good news because T-cells are associated with life-long immunity.

The other nice thing they reported is that testing old pre-Covid-19 blood samples, they found a good chunk of them contained antibodies that responded to some SARS-COV2 surface proteins. They hypothesized this was because those proteins were shared with the other four corona virus strains that circulated world-wide as common colds over the last 15 years. This may well explain why most kids have asymptomatic infections, if they had one of those colds. It also explains why some kids (who never encountered any of the four harmless corona viruses) can get very sick and even die. Kids in daycare and school are very likely to get such colds, which explains why young people usually do not have bad cases. This very same generational pre-exposure effect happened in 1918 also.

I actually hypothesized this very same thing, when I read that some antibody test makers warned their takers that exposure to one of those four strains could cause false positives. Not totally false, as it turns out!

This actually means we have four ready-made "cowpox" viruses we could use to give people immunity to this "smallpox", just like the very first vaccinations ever used.

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#326103 - 05/26/20 03:36 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
perotista Online   content
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 714
Here's something to think about. It helps explain the political differences between the two major parties in keeping things closed and reopening back up.

From the article.

"The devastation, in other words, has been disproportionately felt in blue America, which helps explain why people on opposing sides of a partisan divide that has intensified in the past two decades are thinking about the virus differently. It is not just that Democrats and Republicans disagree on how to reopen businesses, schools and the country as a whole. Beyond perception, beyond ideology, there are starkly different realities for red and blue America right now."

"The Coronavirus Is Deadliest Where Democrats Live"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-deadliest-where-democrats-live-121518089.html

I can see the difference here where I live. My county has been relative unscathed. Reopening most things seems appropriate. Now those in and around the Atlanta area, that might be considered crazy. Well over half of all cases and deaths in Georgia have occurred in and around Atlanta. Atlanta heavily Democratic, the rest of Georgia, pretty much Republican.

Based on the article, it is easy to see and understand the huge political difference between parties in keeping things closed and reopening.
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#326104 - 05/26/20 05:09 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: perotista]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17044
Loc: Florida
My mostly rural county is the same. Relatively unscathed. We know it's out there and that we might catch it and die. But we needn't live in fear of it. Most everyone is wearing masks except in the poor people store where I occasionally shop. Maybe half wear masks there and some employees don't.

But the craziness from the right is....well, crazy.

Quote:
A viral social media post falsely claims Dr. Anthony Fauci is “pushing” remdesivir as a potential COVID-19 treatment drug, because he “invented” it with Bill Gates and they stand to profit from it.
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#326122 - 05/26/20 11:32 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Relatively unscathed....so far. The virus doesn't care if you are Democrat or Republican, city dweller or rural. If you mix with people who have it, you will get it, and if your local medical facilities are few and unsophisticated, you could die. You could die anyway. Open everything up without masks, and you WILL have an outbreak. Maybe we can get to a second hundred thousand dead.

The new case count does not depend on your zip code. The virus is exactly the same. The shape of the curve is exactly the same when people don't maintain distance and wear masks. If you think you are invulnerable because of your rural location, you are going to be sadly disappointed. Many of the major outbreaks currently are in rural locations that thought it wouldn't come there. The whole US numbers look like they are going down, but that's mostly New York. If you remove New York, the numbers are still going up.

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#326126 - 05/27/20 01:32 AM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
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Most of us rural folks don't do all that much mixing in the best of times.
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#326127 - 05/27/20 04:06 AM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
Spag-hetti Offline
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Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1672
Loc: Middle, USA
I moved to bum f**k Texas, and I am surrounded by Trump lovers, but so far, none of them have been viral. Plus, I live on a dead-end road on the way to nowhere. Not bad, these days.
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#326131 - 05/27/20 05:13 AM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: Spag-hetti]
pdx rick Offline
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CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43112
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Spag-hetti
I moved to bum f**k Texas, and I am surrounded by Trump lovers, but so far, none of them have been viral. Plus, I live on a dead-end road on the way to nowhere. Not bad, these days.

Why'ja go do a fool thing like that? Hmm

The last time we talked, I lived in Cali in the Bay Area. Now I live in the South Puget Sound. More trees...and water.

smile

My former roommate passed away May 2019.



Got a new roommate 5 months later:



He's very lazy. smile

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#326132 - 05/27/20 12:56 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: Greger]
perotista Online   content
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Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 714
Originally Posted By: Greger
Most of us rural folks don't do all that much mixing in the best of times.


Most of the cases we had in my county came from Atlanta. Folks who traveled or went to work there brought it back. The strange thing here is our county hospital has been either laying off health workers and cutting hours back on their medical staff. My son-in-law works as a nurse there. Visits to the emergency room is down by at least 2/3rds and routine medical visits there have almost completely ceased.

It seems everyone is too scared to go to the hospital out of fear of catching the virus. Talked to my family doctor the other day, she said she is seeing only about half the normal load of her patients. Again fear of catching the virus in the doctor's office.

seems, at least down here, routine and regular medical visits for things like colds, flu, X-rays, medicine refills, exams, etc. and other services have become a thing of the past. Or at least until the virus goes away.

Our Dentist and our eye doctor's offices have been closed since the start of this thing. Took the dogs to the vet last week for their shots, but the vet wouldn't allow anyone to come inside. He took the dogs and did his thing while we waited in the car. At least the dogs got their shots.
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It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#326134 - 05/27/20 01:15 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: perotista]
rporter314 Offline
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Quote:
It seems everyone is too scared to go to the hospital out of fear of catching the virus.
I don't fear going to hospital ... I have a healthy respect for the fact hospitals are where people who are sick, with all manner of potentially deadly diseases, are enclosed in one place. The antiseptic smell is not convincing to me.
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#326135 - 05/27/20 02:32 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
perotista Online   content
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Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 714
Each individual is different, each has different phobias and fears. You actually have some folks who think, thought this virus was going to wipe out 2/3rds or more of the entire world's population. On the other side, there are those who believe it's a hoax.

With all the attention given to the virus and closing everything up, it's understandable that some, perhaps quite a lot have fears of going to the hospital and doctor's offices. If one gets the virus, those are the first places those folks will go. Stay away from hospitals and doctor's offices, minimize your chances of catching the virus. Or so it seems quite a lot of folks in my county think so anyway.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#326137 - 05/27/20 04:53 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: perotista]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17044
Loc: Florida
I was scared to go anywhere at first, but it became apparent that if we were careful we could mostly go on with our lives. Nobody I know knows anybody who has had it. Everybody I know is being careful as hell about touching anything anywhere or getting close to anyone outside of pretty tight circles. It aint over til it's over but at least we know the rules of the game now. We can stop the spread and protect ourselves from getting it.
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#326142 - 05/27/20 06:36 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
jgw Online   content
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Registered: 05/22/06
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Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Sometimes I sense that there are a lot of people who really haven't a clue as to what has happened. Basically, people who understand things about hospitals, covid-19, etc. figured out that if covid-19 couldn't be slowed down that the hospitals would be overwhelmed and those who had been infected, and were ill, would not be able to get medical attention because our healthcare system would be overwhelmed and there would not be enough facilities to handled the infected.

The result of that understanding incurred some changes in how things were. Large, new, facilities were built, for instance, in New York (they got used but are now, for the most part, gone). The populace was told to go home and stay there to lower the number of infected as well. The reasoning was that if you did that you wouldn't get infected thereby lowering the possibility of an overwhelmed healthcare system unable to care for the ill. This worked, the day was saved, everybody who needed hospital care got that care and still do.

That was it, that was why. There were, however, changes. These were that everybody (for the most part) went home so as not to get infected. This means most folks are not shopping, not eating out, children are not going to school, universities have shut down, and people are not working. All that being said we still have Covid-19 waiting to infect anybody who is not careful. There are new cases every day.

There are, however, communities, such as where I live, where nobody has been infected unless they came from outside, or went someplace else, got infected, then returned here to infect friends or relatives (we have had about 5 like that - total). Since there are few infected (22 out of a population of something like 70,000) there is a whole group of the population that tend to discount Covid-19 and want to have everybody back working and spending their money. The problem with that one is that nobody has been working and so there are few that have any money to spend in the first place. Over time its all morphed into a political situation wherein the Republicans are right when they question whether there is a Covid-19 and the other side that continues to hide at home.

In the end, I think, we have a problem with what really is, and what really isn't and instead of that being a question of reality it has become a question of politics. My own thought is remaining careful is probably the smart thing to do. Politics, when it comes to this, is basically insane and makes no sense. All that being said I am not convinced there is anything anybody can do about any of this. Its as if we have all decided to have mental problems to one degree or another. I know people, for instance, who refuse to wear face masks. They never even started to wear them and they are not getting infected because we have done an absolutely great job of dealing with those that do get infected and they are out of sight and out of mind. One side says "why worry" and the other says "look out!" and both sides laugh at the other.

The interesting part, for me, is that there is now a lot of talk as to how Covid-19 is attacking, more and more, those outside of major population centers. Since, here, we are all pretty much relaxed, on both sides, I suspect we are wide open to getting infected. I remain convinced that Covid-19 will be there until either 75% of us get it and survive or that a vaccine that works. In between I would also like to know that there are treatments for the infected that work. One of my personal problems is that I am 85 and not likely to currently survive unless there is a treatment or vaccine that actually works.

Anyway, piles of people no longer have jobs. There have been any number of small businesses that have closed their doors and have no plans to start up again. This adds to the unemployed. Big Corporations are also getting ready to start firing employees because they have no business. This started with people hiding out from Covid-19, this caused, and is causing, the aforementioned employment problems. We are being told that even after Covid-19 goes away we will have unemployment between 20% and 40% for several years whilst those that employ restore themselves.

Now add in the simple fact that we went from a 20,000,000,000+ (20 trillion+) debt to, so far a 24 trillion dollar debt. I suspect that will go up to quite a bit more than that. All this has happened whilst our GDP has continued to fall which also means that our debt is going to end up A LOT more than our GDP and this will re-define our national debt and the sale of our bonds based on a national debt that is hugely more than our Gross National Product which is the sum total of all goods and services in the United States. This is NOT a good thing! A simple way to put this one is that Joe is friend of yours and wants to borrow money from you. Joe has no job, and existing debt of more than he is worth and has no money coming in. You gonna loan Joe any more money? Now, If you are, what if Joe was not a friend but a stranger asking you for money. You gonna loan more money to a stranger? In this case the stranger is the United States of America.
https://www.epi.org/blog/the-coronavirus...makers-act-now/

https://www.epi.org/blog/a-prolonged-dep...al-governments/


Edited by jgw (05/27/20 07:11 PM)

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#326143 - 05/27/20 07:13 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
perotista Online   content
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 714
Jgw, very good summation. There's nothing I can add to that. Yes, even down here I see "For Lease," signs in once were prosperous local stores and restaurants. when we emerge from this thing, nothing will be the same. who ever thought that Hospitals and Doctors would be laying people off when this all began?

Like Greger, I also know of no one who has caught the virus. The cases we had in my country can be directly attributed to those who went into and came from Atlanta. When some folks read in the county paper that there were 6 new cases from last week admitted to the hospital and two deaths, most just stopped going to the hospital. They knew that was where the active cases were and it was to be avoided.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#326148 - 05/28/20 02:52 AM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
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Loc: North San Diego County
I actually think we are going to have a vaccine (or several) before the end of the year. Business will reopen where they planned for this and had enough reserves to hold out. A lot of them may move because they gave up leases, but then again there will be a lot of space available. There may be new businesses, as wealthy people invest. Remember, they have not gone broke at all during this pandemic: They just stopped making a lot of income.

What happens post vaccine when a pizza parlor opens? Huge business as people rush to get back to eating pizzas. What happens when sit-down restaurants open safely? Jam-packed. Yes, 20% of the population has endured unemployment, but a lot of people did not. I think the business environment is going to come roaring back.

Edit 5/28: Just got back from Home Depot at 2 PM. Parking lot was full. Turned around and came home.

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#326149 - 05/28/20 02:53 AM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: Spag-hetti]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
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Nice to hear from you again, Spag-hetti!

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#326169 - 05/28/20 09:59 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: pondering_it_all]
jgw Online   content
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Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3451
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I think you are probably right about the vaccine. My problem with it is that they may skip some steps to be first in line for sales. I also suspect China is the one in the lead right now. Not only that but they have said they will share it with the world. I can only assume that, before that happens, China will have had a couple million folks using that vaccine and records are kept. I also notice that the Oxford University vaccine is back at it and testing is in phase 2/3. I guess they must have 'adjusted' it so that it worked.

Anyway..............

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#326171 - 05/28/20 10:20 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
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Loc: North San Diego County
I don't think Oxford has made any changes. They are just hoping it works in humans but not in monkeys. Which is not a good bet, because another group in the US already published their results and two of their vaccines worked great in monkeys. That study included challenging the vaccinated monkeys with live virus and it worked perfectly.
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#326179 - 05/29/20 02:02 AM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
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Rather a big scandal regarding the Lancet HCQ paper: Looks like they faked a lot of data. ALL their data comes from a proprietary company one of the co-authors owns, and they won't let anybody look at it. They claim it includes case data from up until just a few days before the paper was submitted from over 600 hospitals, many of whom have never heard of this company. Extracting patient data from hospitals to combine is difficult, takes months, has to pass ethics boards, etc.

Then they claim out of those many thousands of patient records they matched patients into groups with 23 different matching parameters. (Like sex, smoker, diabetes, etc.) Collecting all that data would have taken months and had many people doing it. The paper only mentions four co-authors, none of them epidemiologists or statisticians.

Lancet is trying to get "some clarification" from the authors, as they put it. Lancet is going to wind up with a very damaged reputation from this. Meanwhile WHO has stopped all HCQ trials, Fauci has jumped on board, several countries have forbidden HCQ use for Covid-19 because of this paper.
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#326181 - 05/29/20 03:48 AM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: pondering_it_all]
rporter314 Offline
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Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7240
Loc: Highlands, Tx
If there is a problem, it is precisely this kind of thing which taints all serious scientific studies. Conservatives already believe scientists are the servants of satan and of course are deeply involved in the global conspiracy to enslave the poor abused conservative.

Scientists have to do better.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
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#326244 - 05/31/20 08:43 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
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The politicization of hydroxychloroquine may be moot: East Virginia Medical School has added quercetin to their treatment protocol, even at the prophylactic stage. Quercetin is a zinc ionophore, like hydroxychloroquine but without the QT elongation some doctors worry about. I am actually taking it, since it is available over-the-counter. It is actually a flavonoid present (in lower amounts) in a lot of vegetables and fruits. They recommend prophylactic Vitamins D3 and C, zinc, and Pepcid or the generic equivalent.

They also want people to take melatonin. I've been taking it for a couple of nights and all I can say is: Damn! This is powerful stuff for supposedly a harmless supplement. I really go right to sleep and stay asleep for 8 hours. But if I have to set the alarm for sunrise to let dogs out, I can still function fine, and then go back to sleep when it's done.
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#326262 - 06/01/20 06:19 AM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
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Nice accepted article for the American Journal of Epidemiology:

Early Outpatient Treatment

The author reviews the literature to find the miniscule number of deaths actually attributed to hydroxychloroquine + azithromycin, compared to the number of Covid-19 patients dying every day. He criticizes the use of antivirals like remdesivir and HCQ for critically ill patients due to scarcity and FDA restrictions. Suggests that we need to concentrate on keeping Covid-19 patients from ever needing hospitalization, and presents the actual reports in which HCQ + AZ have proved to do this very well, including one report in which inclusion of zinc sulphate cut mortality in half.

In other words, pretty much the opposite of what the Lancet article suggested. Interesting reading.

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#326276 - 06/01/20 04:24 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: pondering_it_all]
Spag-hetti Offline
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Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1672
Loc: Middle, USA
Amen, big time, on the melatonin, P-I-A. I have taken one and then realized I couldn't hit the hay for a couple hours, and I didn't feel the least bit drowsy. But in a cozy bed, it works great,

Plus melatonin works like warm milk, and signals your body to release some growth hormone, and that's very healthy.
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#326302 - 06/02/20 06:18 AM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
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Loc: North San Diego County
I do feel like I could just go back to bed for a few hours when I wake up to pee. I have pretty much just slept for 6.5 hours for years, but with melatonin I can sleep 8 hours. Which might be better for me.

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#326305 - 06/02/20 04:21 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17044
Loc: Florida
There was a thing going around Facebook that says Covid is not actually a virus but a bacterium and that aspirin or other anticoagulants will prevent or cure it. Links and scientific facts are all provided,

I'll bring it here for your amusement if you'd like to see it.
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#326362 - 06/04/20 05:25 AM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
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Aspirin would not do the job. The seriously ill patients in cytokine storm have so much endothelial inflammation because the virus invades and destroys the lining layer of the blood vessels (where it finds ACE II receptors). This releases von Willebrand factor(VWF) which forms long polymer strands that make for extreme clots. Aspirin is not going to do anything to these VWF strands in your blood stream. It just makes platelets less sticky. Those clots clog up your lung capillaries (looks like ARDS, but isn't), your coronary arteries, your brain arteries, etc. Causing loss of function in all those organs.

NAC (N-acetylcysteine) could help. It contains a sulfur atom that can cleave VWF polymers, and humans tolerate it very well. In that sense, it's kind of an over the counter clot buster! It also helps recharge your glutathione after that protein reduces hydrogen peroxide to water. That makes it a very powerful antioxidant, which reduces the inflammation generated by superoxide and hydrogen peroxide, which are causing the whole mess. The immune cells make these poisons to kill infected cells, but in this case they can make too much and kill us.

Most treatment now anticoagulates with full dose heparin, but some people like EVMS suggest NAC as well.

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#326372 - 06/04/20 11:06 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
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As I predicted, Lancet paper on HCQ retracted by three of the authors. The fourth author had no comment. He's the owner of the fake company that supplied the data for the paper.

Another paper published by the New England Journal of Medicine: They looked at the ability of HCQ as a post exposure prophylactic. Summary: If you wait four days after the exposure, HCQ does not seem to do much good. There were a few problems. For example, not many of the participants were confirmed to actually have Covid-19 with PCR tests. They also kind of missed the point because zinc was not part of their design, though some of the participants were taking zinc in both control and HCQ arms. Taking zinc was strictly self-reported, so uncontrolled. They also ended up with some very small numbers, so not much of significance could be reported.

They included hospitalizations and death as secondary end points, but halted the study when their primary end point failed. Since the whole idea of an antiviral is to prevent serious illness and hospitalization, it would have been nice if they reported those numbers. So we still don't have confirmation that early HCQ + zinc cuts mortality in half as reported elsewhere.

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#326390 - 06/06/20 04:10 AM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
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BOMBSHELL: The paper that said ivermectin was effective turns out had that same SurgiFake doctor as a coauthor, and his scam company supplied all the data. That paper is going to be retracted, with more black eyes for the journals and possibly innocent co-authors. I think this guy needs to lose his license, if not get a nice new tar and feather suit.

Somebody needs to look through the Citation Index and see what else he has faked.
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God sent Trump.......because God was out of locusts.

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#326391 - 06/06/20 05:36 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: pondering_it_all]
jgw Online   content
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Registered: 05/22/06
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it just dawns on me what they are doing (sometimes it takes me longer than others). Anyway, the are doing ALL the tests on their drug AT THE SAME TIME! Right through test 3 (with thousands of testers. I think they are using India for that one). Apparently there are several doing this. Seems a bit dangerous to me.

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#326397 - 06/06/20 07:54 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
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Quote:
tests on their drug


Did you mean ivermectin? This is an approved drug for parasites, even in the US. It's very widely used in the Third World where there are some truly horrible parasites that can kill or blind people. It is quite safe, at the dose some people suggest for Covid-19. The only question is does it help or not.

You may actually be giving it to your dog. It's the main (or only) ingredient in Heartgard heart worm prevention.
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#326404 - 06/07/20 04:50 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: pondering_it_all]
jgw Online   content
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No this is the Oxford Vaccine that failed in monkeys. They are, as you said, going forward with everything.

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#326408 - 06/07/20 06:38 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Even though it failed in that species of monkey, it might still work in humans. We are not identical. Hopefully, they tested it in ferrets (which are known to get infected). They would find out in the first trials if humans developed neutralizing antibodies. That would take about a month.

There is an American vaccine that was tested in a different species of monkey, with spectacular results. So even if Oxford fails, there are plenty of good vaccines in trials. Astra Zenica has said they can produce 200 billion doses quickly, so even if it's not the Oxford vaccine, it will be some good one. That manufacturing capacity is not going to sit idle.

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#326436 - 06/08/20 08:21 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
jgw Online   content
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Here are a couple of the latest I could find:

https://indianexpress.com/article/corona...-india-6447030/

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life...ry/76261249.cms

I also noticed that Oxford is going to use Brazil as a testing point. (LOTS of victims there)


Edited by jgw (06/08/20 08:31 PM)

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#326444 - 06/09/20 05:47 AM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Quote:
I also noticed that Oxford is going to use Brazil as a testing point.


Excellent idea. Their government policies make it a pretty sure thing lots of people are going to get exposed. If the vaccine fails to work, they have not done any harm. If it does work, the results would be VERY dramatic. Cheap, too: Just give several thousand people vaccinations, and then see what happens to them.

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#326459 - 06/09/20 06:38 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
jgw Online   content
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Here is a new list of vaccines current being tested, posted this morning.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/lab-peoples-arms-list-covid-19-vaccines-studied/story?id=71145250

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#326481 - 06/10/20 04:36 AM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
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I think we might have a problem with it getting into the feral cat population. Another reason not to let your pet cat out to come in contact with other cats. Either your cat could get it into the feral cats, or your cat could bring it home to infect you and your family. People feeding the ferals could get infected, even after we vaccinate extensively or reach herd immunity. It can infect other animals, but cats are the ones with the greatest chance to spread it with people.
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#326483 - 06/10/20 06:41 AM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
NW Ponderer Offline
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I'm from Missouri.

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#326498 - 06/10/20 07:37 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
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BTW, I'm in touch with GreatNewsTonight. His immediate family is fine, but his brother had very mild Covid-19 but just ended up in the hospital with a stroke a week later. This is a VERY BAD VIRUS, folks. You want to avoid this at all costs, if possible. Trump's idea of just letting everyone catch it would result in millions of dead and many more crippled for life.

Wear those masks, and not pulled down off your nose. Use eye protection. Keep social distance. Wash your hands often after touching anything out in public, or after removing your mask once home.

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#326579 - 06/12/20 08:23 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
jgw Online   content
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There are the vaccines and then there are the treatments. Thought I would check out treatments and here are a couple of results(I restricted the results to the last 24 hours):

https://www.beckersasc.com/supply-chain/5-covid-19-treatment-contenders-how-they-work.html
https://www.rockefeller.edu/news/28238-llama-nanobodies-covid-19-research/

Its interesting. If you google for covid-19 vaccine, for just the last 24 hours, you will get page after page. If, however, you look for "covid-19 treatment" there is only two replies.

I did it again, this time for the last week and found more:
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/932181
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/...n/#3ea0bf9fdc69
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/h...ts-for-covid-19

On the face of it treatments are few and far between and all seem to be either in tests or have been tested and don't work. Vaccines, it seems, may be ahead of the treatments so far but there are treatment coming up and are being tested. I am just hoping to last long enough so that, if I get it, there will actually be a treatment that works whilst waiting for the vaccine to come on line. (I think treatment may be available before a vaccine due to testing requirements).



Edited by jgw (06/12/20 08:31 PM)

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#326583 - 06/13/20 05:48 AM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
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There are some useful prophylactic measures that are very safe to take and easy to find. These are things you can find in your local drug store, health food store, or on Amazon. None of them are cures, but they can make your body much more resistant so if you do get it you have a much better chance of having a mild case.

First of all, Vitamin D: Take 4000 iu per day, and if you have a deficiency take 10000 iu per day for two weeks to build up your stores. There are some scientific papers that support this.

Next would be zinc and quercetin: 50 mg per day is the highest recommended dose for zinc, but if you do get sick you could up that to 100 mg/day. Quercetin is pretty safe. About 500 mg twice a day.

Vitamin C: 500 mg twice per day, because why not? Couldn't hurt.

NAC: If you have any symptoms at all, take 600 mg of N-acetyl-cysteine. Very good to prevent clotting and jack up your anti-oxidents.

Meletonin: 2-3 mg just before bed. Good sleep is very important for your immune system.

Pepcid: May block an enzyme the virus needs. One study suggested this because way more people on Prilosec as opposed to Pepcid got hospitalized.

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#326588 - 06/13/20 05:27 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: pondering_it_all]
jgw Online   content
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thanks for the thought. I am taking most of those every day, except for meletonin and pepcid.

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#326592 - 06/13/20 09:37 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
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I've started taking meletonin, and I find I sleep a lot better and always fall asleep quicker. Apparently high doses of Vitamin D can give some people insomnia. I just noticed that happening recently.

I just got some generic pepcid. It's extremely cheap, and it might help, so it's nice to have. I probably won't take it unless I start to get sick. Stomach acid is actually a pretty good defense against a lot of pathogens.

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#326632 - 06/15/20 07:39 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
jgw Online   content
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#326635 - 06/15/20 10:14 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Interesting, that first article reports a combination of antivirals that might be useful. But like all antivirals, they would have to be given very early to do any good. Hopefully, they do a Phase 3 trial somewhere like Brazil where they have a lot of community spread and then give it out to a lot of people with first symptoms.

The other interesting thing they report is finding a lot of recovered people are not making the long-lasting IgG antibodies. So if you use 2 month old recovered plasma it may not help sick people. That does not mean the recovered patient could catch it again. The virus is in their B-cell memory, so they could make a lot of IgG quickly. They just never had to, because the short term IgM took care of it. This matches nicely with the reported finding of others that many recovered patients were not "sero-converting" (making IgG).

The second URL is nice, because it's for a drug to treat the later, autoimmune phase of a serious infection. If we had a really good treatment for that, it would knock the death rate a lot. And the patients who could use it are very obvious, unlike antiviral candidates.

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#326647 - 06/16/20 05:33 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
jgw Online   content
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I also read someplace that they are starting to close in on what makes some people more likely to get very sick but have not net nailed it down. This is, I think, a really good thing! (especially if they figure it out)

I am more interested in treatments and who gets what than the vaccines which I suspect are going to take a bit more time. The good news is that they seem to be making progress. I have, incidentally, not posted anything about Ayurveda medicine, its a bit strange.

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#326652 - 06/16/20 07:44 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Random assigned study out of Oxford reported today, not peer reviewed or published yet but it will be. They said dexamethasone (common steroid) given to sick and very sick Covid-19 patients cuts mortality by up to 1/3. Actually the East Virginia Medical School protocol has been suggesting steroids for the inflammatory autoimmune phase of serious illness for quite some time, but it's nice to have a random trial to confirm it.

I was a little surprised that the MedCram doc at UC Riverside was not using steroids for all his sick patients, since he's been posting a lot about the serious phase being endothelial inflammation, and steroids would be one obvious treatment for that. He said WHO said not to use steroids a while back, but now with this study I suspect a lot of docs will use them. WHO has said a lot of stuff that later turns out to be wrong, but the docs have had to learn as they go.

I think this is more support for the theory that says the virus causes serious oxidative stress, resulting in superoxide and hydrogen peroxide which attacks the endothelium (lining of the blood vessels). This releases some super clotting stuff call Von Willibrand's Factor (VWF) that forms long chains to build blood clots. All the serious lung, heart, and other organ failure is caused by those micro-clots clogging the capillaries.

NAC can steer the immune system away from inflammation, reduce those oxygen radicals, and breakup VWF chains. Speaking of Ayurvedic Medicine, curcumin is actually a pretty powerful antioxidant. It would be worth looking into.

One of the more interesting things to come out of this, is that many of these treatments and prophylactics are not SARS-COV2 specific. They might work against other viruses as well. For example, they know about NAC for what it does for flu patients. It does not have any effect on who catches flu, but it makes it much less serious. Worth having it around in the future, and you can buy it over-the-counter.

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#326670 - 06/17/20 05:03 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: pondering_it_all]
jgw Online   content
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All I know is that there are a LOT of folks working on all this stuff. Its really pretty interesting. Our dear leader is absolutely convinced that cures and vaccines are just around the corner and we just gotta hold our breaths and ignore Covid-19 and its just going to go away.

that meanness aside I take some comfort that all those folks are working very hard to save me when I get infected (I fully expect that to happen and the more everybody ignores it the more I become concerned).

I heard that about sars and the flu last night. Covid-19 seems to be brand new and they learn more, day by day. We are not even sure if one can get covid-19 again, if somebody who has had it can still spread it, who is most likely to die from the infection, etc. Pretty basic stuff I think.

They continue to talk about the flu and Covid-19 together in the next round. Now THAT might get even more interesting?

I defer to you for the specifics - waaaay past my pay grade! <g>

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#326675 - 06/17/20 06:18 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pdx rick Offline
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A cheap steroid is the first drug shown to reduce death in COVID-19 patients

Quote:
After months of dire news about the spread of the novel coronavirus and a mounting global death toll, a glimmer of hope arrived today: Researchers announced that dexamethasone, a cheap, widely available corticosteroid, significantly reduced deaths of severely sick COVID-19 patients in a major clinical trial. Although full trial data have not yet been released, several outside commentators hailed the result as a “breakthrough.”

“These are really surprising, but really very convincing results,” says Martin Landray of the University of Oxford, one of the principal investigators of the Recovery trial in the United Kingdom that evaluated the steroid. If they hold up, adds Devi Sridhar, an expert on global public health at the University of Edinburgh, they could be a game-changer for critical patients, as the drugs are accessible even in lower-income countries.

- Science Mag.com
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#326677 - 06/17/20 09:16 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Actually, the retired pathologist at Peak Prosperity made an interesting point about the steroid paper: He said steroid use has been in the MATH+ protocol from East Virginia Medical School for months and they have been using it for a long time in France and Spain, and that the reported mortality of 41% for ventilated patients without the drug was WAY worse than current rates. Either this is very old data, or they are doing something wrong in their treatments.

More likely, this simply represents the sluggish response of the random drug trial system to a fast moving pandemic. Yes, random assigned double-blind trials are the best evidence in science today. But when some hospital's mortality rate drops from 41% down to 10%, maybe your hospital should try whatever they are doing. The random blind study can confirm that was the right move later.

He also reported on a small trial of Pepcid (or the generic). N was just around 100, so it's hard to draw any conclusion, but out of all the people who took it almost everybody said they recovered quickly and completely. It's at the "somebody should do a real random study with a lot of people" stage now. But once again, it's something that's not going to harm anyone or cost a lot, so why not try it.

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#326678 - 06/17/20 09:37 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
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I might just be paranoid, but I doubt it. I think our government has been trying to implement Trump's "just let everybody catch it" policy right from the start. First they lie about masks "because we wanted healthcare workers to get them", even though homemade cloth masks work fine to keep the spread rate low. Then they seem to consistently fail to test hydroxychloroquine with zinc as an early treatment. They say "take out food is safe" when it is only safe if nobody at the restaurant is shedding virus. Then they open up lockdowns without doing the most basic "here's what you have to do" tutorials on masks, distancing, hand washing, safe food shopping, etc. And top it off with Trump and Republicans convincing the stupidest among us not to wear masks.

This sounds like a policy of sacrificing all the old or sick to get to herd immunity. The obvious problem with that is that it requires a huge number of dead and permanently disabled people to get there. Reports from recovered people are not good: Many of them are saying they still have health problems months later. Some of this is going to be permanent. And of course, dying is permanent, too.

I wonder if this has an underlying motive of lowering the number of people collecting Social Security and Medicare. I've also heard Trump's niece has some pretty scathing things to say about Trump's relationship with his old and sick father.

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#326685 - 06/18/20 10:04 AM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
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I've been looking at some stuff on the MATH+ protocol and hospitals that are following it are getting incredibly low mortality rates. This is a protocol using methylprednisolone IV, ascorbic acid IV, thiamine, and heparin, plus Vitamin D, zinc, meletonin, pepcid, etc. Started within 6 hours of ER presentation. These patients have been sick at home for days and finally had enough breathing difficulty to go to the hospital, so they will probably be admitted and some percentage would go on to die. That UK steroid paper reported mortality of 41% for ventilated patients.

But the doctors using MATH+ are reporting under 2% mortality and they were 80 years old+ with co-morbidities. I think a lot of people are going to die needlessly if more hospitals continue to ignore this protocol.

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#326691 - 06/18/20 04:56 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: pondering_it_all]
jgw Online   content
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I saw a report, last night. The doctor said that this drug was dangerous when not in the hands of a doctor and is only used on patients in dire straights. This confused as I thought I also heard that it should be given if you are sick enough to be in the hospital.

Kinda sounds kinda like a crap shoot.

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#326700 - 06/18/20 07:09 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Quote:
this drug

I'm not sure which drug you mean. MATHS is meant to be an in-hospital protocol using cheap, available, and approved drugs. EVMS has different protocols for prophylaxis and home care.

The "dire straights" concept of the FDA approving drugs for patients who are dying has actually killed a lot of Covid-19 patients: Especially for antivirals, that might stop viral replication very early but have no effect (and possibly do harm) to patients in the later autoimmune phase of the disease.

I saw a video in which a doctor admitted they were only giving remdesivir to those dying patients because they had a very limited supply. So they reserve the antiviral drug for patients who may not even have much virus any more and instead are dying from their own immune system's cytokine storm! Sounds like a waste of time and scarce drug to me.

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#326705 - 06/18/20 10:20 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: pondering_it_all]
jgw Online   content
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dexamethazone was the drug I was referring to (apologies, should have told you).

Here are my finds for treatments have found today:
https://outline.com/www.washingtonpost.c...ent-study-says/
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/featured...ian-scientists/

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#326739 - 06/19/20 08:49 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Dexamethazone: Prescription only, but it does not have to be used only with medical supervision in a hospital. It is prescribed in pill form for daily uses against autoimmune inflammatory problem like RA. It should be managed by your Primary Care doctor or rheumatologist on an ongoing basis, and patients have to be careful to keep taking their medication. To get off it, you have to taper down gradually so your adrenal glands can start making your own steroids.

I think doctors on TV are being very protective of their right to manage health care and drug use, so we don't have a lot of DIY aquarium cleaner deaths. Remember, half the population has an IQ under 100.

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#327216 - 07/10/20 06:53 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
jgw Online   content
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