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#325970 - 05/23/20 12:30 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
GreatNewsTonight Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/27/20
Posts: 264
Originally Posted By: Greger
Feck Bernie. He's one of us but the movement doesn't depend on him.

I'm a Liz Bro. For the same reason I love Hilary. She's a social democrat at heart but has never had the word attached to her. The primaries showed us that we still don't have the numbers to win at the polls, but we have enough influence to affect policy. I kind of like playing a stealth game.

Joe and Liz are talking. I'm over the moon. That would be one of the stealthiest moves in gamingpolitics EVER!

A built in and popular progressive candidate for 2024.



What makes you think that Liz is popular? She couldn't even convince Democratic voters that she is good enough to win the nomination, let alone the rest of the country.

Her supporters tend to be an elitist minority.

My wife did vote for her in our state's primaries.
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#325976 - 05/23/20 03:48 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: GreatNewsTonight]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16832
Loc: Florida
Liz isn't particularly popular now...but she led the race for a time. She will be a popular vice president because she knows how to get things done. I'm far too poor and uneducated ever to be considered part of any "elite". I'm more like white trash for Liz...y'know?

My people are matriarchic. And we take pinkie promises seriously.
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#325980 - 05/23/20 11:49 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: GreatNewsTonight]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 587
Originally Posted By: GreatNewsTonight
Originally Posted By: Greger
Feck Bernie. He's one of us but the movement doesn't depend on him.

I'm a Liz Bro. For the same reason I love Hilary. She's a social democrat at heart but has never had the word attached to her. The primaries showed us that we still don't have the numbers to win at the polls, but we have enough influence to affect policy. I kind of like playing a stealth game.

Joe and Liz are talking. I'm over the moon. That would be one of the stealthiest moves in gamingpolitics EVER!

A built in and popular progressive candidate for 2024.



What makes you think that Liz is popular? She couldn't even convince Democratic voters that she is good enough to win the nomination, let alone the rest of the country.

Her supporters tend to be an elitist minority.

My wife did vote for her in our state's primaries.

I don't understand this fascination for having Warren as Biden's VP. She does nothing to help Biden get to 270. Biden is going to win the Northeast regardless who his VP is. It's true that most independents view her as being aloof and elitist and they don't much care for her. As a reminders, most independents back in 2016 also viewed Hillary as being aloof and coming across as elitist which resulted in their voting for Trump.

In an era where party affiliation is fairly even, when independents make up approximately 40% of the electorate, their view on the candidates becomes much more important than in the past. But most folks never vote on the VP candidate in a normal election. With Biden being 78, I think much more scrutiny will be given to whoever old Joe chooses.

I think the first rule in selecting the VP is to select one that does you no harm. If they can help, so much the better. Palin hurt McCain, Ryan didn't hurt or help Romney, Biden helped Obama in 2008. Quayle hurt G.H.W. Bush especially in 1992. Now most don't help or hurt, but a competent choice can help swing a state or two your way or guarantee a state stays with you.

I think Warren would hurt Biden a bit more than she would help him. Especially among independents. Her age when most folks will be looking for someone younger to fill in in case something happened to Biden along with her being hard to get to like. My opinion anyway.

Independents don't delve deep into politics or really study their choices. They go on more of a like or dislike opinion of the candidates. They're not political junkies. I'd say taking an SWAG that at least 10% of independents will determine their vote based on the personality of the candidates. I'll just finish saying that Warren doesn't have the personality that attracts independents. After all, many independents view the presidential race as nothing more than a beauty contest.
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#325983 - 05/23/20 02:48 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 587
Ever wonder how much charisma has to do with winning the independent vote and the general election? I have. Obama had charisma, he was what I would call charming. He had the charisma all over McCain and Romney. Bill Clinton was another charismatic type. He also won twice against two very un-charismatic foes. Reagan was another, full of charisma and he won twice.

G.W. Bush didn't really have what I would classify as charisma. But he was more or less down homey, a down home guy. Gore was a statue and Kerry a stone. Jimmy Carter was more like G.W. a down home guy who won against a stoic Ford, but lost big time against Mr. Charisma, Reagan.

All the more charismatic types won the independent vote. Just something to think about, or not.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#325989 - 05/23/20 05:35 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: perotista]
GreatNewsTonight Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/27/20
Posts: 264
Originally Posted By: perotista
Ever wonder how much charisma has to do with winning the independent vote and the general election? I have. Obama had charisma, he was what I would call charming. He had the charisma all over McCain and Romney. Bill Clinton was another charismatic type. He also won twice against two very un-charismatic foes. Reagan was another, full of charisma and he won twice.

G.W. Bush didn't really have what I would classify as charisma. But he was more or less down homey, a down home guy. Gore was a statue and Kerry a stone. Jimmy Carter was more like G.W. a down home guy who won against a stoic Ford, but lost big time against Mr. Charisma, Reagan.

All the more charismatic types won the independent vote. Just something to think about, or not.


That is interesting.
I'm thinking of Bernie Sanders = zero charisma. Looked like an angry and crazy old man.

Tammy Duckworth and Stacey Adams have charisma.
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#325998 - 05/23/20 09:43 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9816
Loc: North San Diego County
Oops: Seems Tara Reade's story is coming apart at the seams.

Tara Reade Loses Her Attorney As New Reporting Dents Her Story

Quote:
It is also worth noting that Readeís strongest corroborating witness at the time it was reported appeared to be her former neighbor Lynda LaCasse, who seemed to offer independent, near-contemporaneous corroboration of the full assault claim on the record in her conversations with Business Insider. Unfortunately, that piece failed to include in its initial round-up one key detail that was published alongside the article in an interview transcript that was behind a paywall: LaCasse only remembered her conversation with Reade after she was reminded of it during a phone call with Reade.

Meanwhile, the reporting on Readeís overall credibility has had results beyond the question of what may have happened between her and Biden. CNNís reporters, for instance, found that Antioch University denied Readeís claims that she had received a bachelor of arts degree from the school and that she had been a visiting professor there.
...
On Thursday, the New York Times further reported that public defenders in California were seeking to challenge convictions in which Reade had been an expert witness based on the possible falsification of her credentials.


Apparently, she's left a trail of acquaintances who felt they had been conned by her, or bilked out of money.

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#326001 - 05/23/20 11:52 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: GreatNewsTonight]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16832
Loc: Florida
Quote:
That is interesting.
I'm thinking of Bernie Sanders = zero charisma. Looked like an angry and crazy old man.

Tammy Duckworth and Stacey Adams have charisma.


The one with zero charisma has millions of loyal and devoted followers and almost got himself nominated twice.

Angry crazy old man? Have you ever heard him speak?

Show me them other two looking more charismatic than this...

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#326009 - 05/24/20 01:06 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
GreatNewsTonight Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/27/20
Posts: 264
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
That is interesting.
I'm thinking of Bernie Sanders = zero charisma. Looked like an angry and crazy old man.

Tammy Duckworth and Stacey Adams have charisma.


The one with zero charisma has millions of loyal and devoted followers and almost got himself nominated twice.

Angry crazy old man? Have you ever heard him speak?

Show me them other two looking more charismatic than this...



Thanks, but no, thanks. I have no intention of watching still another video clip featuring this angry, aloof, unlikable, non-charismatic two-trick pony (he used to be a one-trick pony, "Wall Street is evil" and now he is a two-trick one, adding "M4A - regardless of it being impossible to pass and to pay for") loser. Yes, I've had the displeasure of listening to this loser before. Thankfully, now he is totally irrelevant so I don't need to listen to this annoying loser any longer.

Millions of followers, maybe (which proves nothing; Trump also has millions of followers and I'd never vote for him, and McDonald's has millions of followers but I'd never eat there), but not enough to win a nomination in one party (at most 30% of one party, that is, 15% of America when you add the other half of the country).

Almost won twice? Not at all. He was soundly beaten twice. The first time he was beaten by a hugely disliked candidate, even though he was favored by the anti-vote from simply not being his opponent. Still, he lost by 3.7 million popular votes, to a candidate so bad that she managed to lose to Trump. What a loser, this Bernie Sanders! Couldn't even beat the worst candidate ever. The really charismatic one, Barack Obama, handily beat Hillary Clinton. Just about anybody running against Hillary Clinton in 2016 could have beaten her. Bernie Sanders? Couldn't even manage that.

The second time he got shellacked in a landslide, being cut to his actual size, no longer counting on the anti-vote given that this time his opponent isn't hugely disliked. At the end, the difference between him and his main opponent will be at least 5 million votes, likely more. As of now with still 21 contests to go, it sits already at 3.4 million, although the coronavirus has hindered the primaries.

If that's what you call almost winning, I don't know what else to tell you.

Almost winning is when you lose by 0.5%. Not when you lose by 12.1% like in 2016 (again, to the worst candidate ever), and likely at least 20% in 2020. That's more like losing in a rout.

If you feel that Bernie is charismatic, it's a matter of opinion. I don't think he is charismatic at all. Actually I can't stand him. And the millions who share my opinion are way more numerous than the millions who share yours. 85% of Americans don't care for Bernie Sanders (me included). 15% do.

That's not being popular, and that's not being charismatic.

The Bernie Sanders phenomenon was simply a cult of personality, with his followers idolizing him and not noticing his many shortcomings, just like Trump's cult of personality. The size of the phenomenon was artificially overblown in 2016, and was cut to size in 2020.

Bernie Sanders is the Trump of the Left: a vacuous populist with a cult. The difference is that while Trump is a winner, Bernie is a loser.


Edited by GreatNewsTonight (05/24/20 01:29 AM)
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#326010 - 05/24/20 04:16 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: GreatNewsTonight]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16832
Loc: Florida
Quote:
If that's what you call almost winning, I don't know what else to tell you.

When you come in second it's almost winning.

Your misconceptions about Sanders are truly stunning. But at least you admit your mind is closed on the subject.

Yet you believe, for one reason or another that I should vote for Biden even though I despise the slimey old bastard and everything he stands for? Tammy Ducktape is not a future president. Neither is the Georgia girl. Neither has anything like the chops to run in the primary and win the nomination. Warren led for a while and scared the hell out Biden before she got hung up on M4A. But I imagine she's a little too shrill and intense for you. Best to keep the candidates fairly submissive right? You don't want to elect someone who might do something after all.
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#326014 - 05/24/20 10:23 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
GreatNewsTonight Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/27/20
Posts: 264
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
If that's what you call almost winning, I don't know what else to tell you.

When you come in second it's almost winning.

Your misconceptions about Sanders are truly stunning. But at least you admit your mind is closed on the subject.

Yet you believe, for one reason or another that I should vote for Biden even though I despise the slimey old bastard and everything he stands for? Tammy Ducktape is not a future president. Neither is the Georgia girl. Neither has anything like the chops to run in the primary and win the nomination. Warren led for a while and scared the hell out Biden before she got hung up on M4A. But I imagine she's a little too shrill and intense for you. Best to keep the candidates fairly submissive right? You don't want to elect someone who might do something after all.


What is stunning and full of misconceptions are your assumptions about me.

Not liking that loser called Bernie Sanders is not equal to anything you are pegging on me.

Oh, and by the way, coming in second is for losers. Winners come in first. And no, it's not almost winning when you come in second, but very far behind. Again, it's called losing. Bernie Sanders is a loser, a fact you can't deny.

Someone who could do something: that's not Bernie. Ineffective senator. Created a dozen bills in 16 years in the House and 14 years in the Senate, two of them to rename two post office locations. Has a bunch of pie-in-the-sky ideas that will never see the light of day. Is considered to be a pariah in the Senate, someone nobody likes to work with. The cult of personality that propelled him to this overblown and exaggerated fake importance (again, he only appeals to 15% of Americans and that's another fact; he got 30% of the vote from the Democratic and Democrat-leaning Independents in the Dem primaries; there are no Republican-leaning Independents and Republicans - the other half of the country - who would ever vote for him, so, your great man is supported by 15% of Americans and opposed by 85% - such a loser) has been cut to its real size in 2020, and from now on, Bernie will just sink into more and more irrelevance, a place that fits his ineffective record pretty well.

Cute, the play on Tammy Duckworth's name; someone you should respect; are you adopting Trump's strategy now, of detrimental nicknames? Bravo. You're belittling a true hero, who is just a hundred times more charismatic than that old angry man you like so much. Also, Stacey Abrams is more successful in everything she has done (education - Yale Law grad vs. Sander's B.A. - entrepreneurial skills, effectively won the Georgia governorship but had her victory negated by GOP fraud) than Bernie Sanders could even dream of being (and she is much younger than he is; wanna bet that her political career will be ten times more significant than Bernie's when it's all said and done?).

You think that Bernie Sanders is more presidential material than Stacey Abrams? What exactly has he done? 12 bills, two of them to rename two Post Offices? A bunch of "yeeee free stuff for everybody!" misguided populist ideas? Someone who will be 79 by November, with a weak heart, who wouldn't disclose his health status? (Rumors are that he has a very low ejection fraction after his cardiac event, which indicates a very short remaining life span).

Did you know that he is ranked the 4th bottom senator in terms of passing bills into law? Yep, a doer, indeed... more like an ineffective dreamer.

I never understood why an aloof, loser, out-of-touch with reality, ineffective senator from Vermont got propelled into being the poster child for the progressive movement... unless progressives just want to fail. Well, guess what, that poster child is being rejected by 85% of Americans. Talk about betting on the wrong horse...

And this, without ever being seriously attacked in campaign ads. He was never seriously attacked in 2016 because Hillary didn't want to alienate his followers (which of course ended up happening anyway) and Trump was delighted with him damaging the one viable candidate, so Trump was actually propping him up. In 2020, his campaign collapsed by the 4th day of primary contests (in just one contest, SC, Biden erased Bernie's initial advantage in the first 3, and had already 65K+ total of popular votes over Bernie, then shellacked him on the 5th contest day, Super Tuesday) so there was no real need to attack him.

I suspect that in a campaign that generated a barrage of attack ads poking at Bernie Sander's many vulnerabilities, his popularity would drop even lower than 15%.

The Bernie Sanders movement is a failed movement, that by the way, contributed to us having the disastrous current occupant of the Oval Office. And if all the whining Bernie or Bust types defect again, we will have another 4 years of Trump.

Am I angry at Bernie Sanders and his blind cult followers? You bet. I despise people who are short-sighted enough to shoot themselves in the foot, not realizing the threat that Trump represents to their progressive ideals.

You said it right: Trump has the Supreme Court in his pocket. Thanks to the Bernie or Bust crowd. Not to forget 250 other federal judges appointed by Trump; and remember, those are lifetime appointments. That's what the Bernie or Bust crowd brought upon themselves. For an entire generation, no progressive initiative will fail to be curtailed by the courts.

Again, you are entirely wrong in your assumptions about me. Yes, I want someone who can actually do something. That's exactly why I'm against the ineffective loser called Bernie Sanders.

And no, I don't love Biden, but he's what we got if we want to defeat the much worse Trump. That's why I'm paying attention to who Biden picks as veep.

And I don't dislike Warren. I was just highlighting the fact that she is not popular. She is seen by many as Hillary Clinton 2.0. I think if she is picked as veep, she will hurt the ticket more than help it. If Biden does it, it's a political mistake. Well, Biden is prone to making political mistakes, so maybe he will do it, opening the flank of the ticket to Trump's Pocahontas attacks, and alienating the independents (and not particularly seducing Bernie fans either, since Bernie and Warren got pretty acrimonious against each other, this election cycle - Bernie can't stop alienating even his closest friends).

Warren is an academic. I'm not sure how effective she would be in government. I see Tammy and Stacey as having less experience but more promise. Experience is over-rated anyway. Obama had very little experience with federal office, and Trump had none. They got elected anyway.


Edited by GreatNewsTonight (05/24/20 10:39 AM)
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