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#326255 - 06/01/20 12:24 AM Re: The Maximum Wage [Re: CPWILL]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10253
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Ookay... that is clearly an unhinged view of what makes the world go 'round, in my opinion.

Everything is judged in monetary terms, got it!

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To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
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#326273 - 06/01/20 03:16 PM Re: The Maximum Wage [Re: logtroll]
CPWILL Offline
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Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 422
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Ookay... that is clearly an unhinged view of what makes the world go 'round, in my opinion.


Inertia and Gravity make the world go around.

Quote:
Everything is judged in monetary terms, got it


Nope. But economic exchanges tend to be, ever since we left barter behind.
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#326278 - 06/01/20 05:05 PM Re: The Maximum Wage [Re: CPWILL]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
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You might find this to be interesting, unless your confirmation bias is stronger that your inquisitive mind. Enjoy!

_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#326280 - 06/01/20 05:35 PM Re: The Maximum Wage [Re: CPWILL]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
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Originally Posted By: CPWILL
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Please clarify. Are you equating how much money a person makes with ability to serve each other?

If you don't serve people's needs or wants, in this economy, then they won't give you any money. If you not only serve their needs and wants, but, serve the needs or wants of millions or tens of millions of people in a particularly helpful way, they will give you a lot of money.

Seems quite theoretical to me. I like real life examples (my experience, or your experience).
One example that I know of is lawyers - it is beyond my comprehension, based on my experience, why they can charge so much and do so little of value. In fact, they often do a great deal of damage.
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

Top
#326283 - 06/01/20 06:24 PM Re: The Maximum Wage [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10253
Loc: One of the Mexicos
The concept of service deserves some discussion - and this, I think, is what most causes me to respond to your comments.

The idea that service to others is best measured by dollars spent, or acquired... I'm tempted to post that fun video again.

I am a fancier of the triple-bottom-line economic theory, where social benefits and environmental benefits are accounted for along with direct monetary benefits.
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

Top
#326296 - 06/01/20 10:18 PM Re: The Maximum Wage [Re: logtroll]
CPWILL Offline
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Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 422
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Please clarify. Are you equating how much money a person makes with ability to serve each other?

If you don't serve people's needs or wants, in this economy, then they won't give you any money. If you not only serve their needs and wants, but, serve the needs or wants of millions or tens of millions of people in a particularly helpful way, they will give you a lot of money.

Seems quite theoretical to me. I like real life examples (my experience, or your experience).
One example that I know of is lawyers - it is beyond my comprehension, based on my experience, why they can charge so much and do so little of value. In fact, they often do a great deal of damage.


Fair enough. Next time you find yourself in a court case, or dealing with a complex legal subject, where you have a lot riding on the line, go without legal advice and see how you do. smile

One of the beauties of the free market, after all, is that, if you don't think that the good or service being sold is worth the price being charged, you don't have to buy it smile


Edited by CPWILL (06/01/20 10:19 PM)
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#326297 - 06/01/20 11:13 PM Re: The Maximum Wage [Re: CPWILL]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10253
Loc: One of the Mexicos
You obviously don't have much life experience. For instance, if you don't get good service from a lawyer, how do you not buy it?

(Hint: you always pay in advance.)
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#326311 - 06/02/20 05:20 PM Re: The Maximum Wage [Re: logtroll]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 422
Originally Posted By: logtroll
You obviously don't have much life experience.


(shrug) I'm in the second half of my 30s.

Quote:
For instance, if you don't get good service from a lawyer, how do you not buy it?

(Hint: you always pay in advance.)


If you think that the lawyer isn't giving you good advice, fire them and get another. Lawyers that are terrible at serving their client's won't do as well as those who are great at it (shrug), and the former can charge more than the latter as a result of the difference in how well they serve their clients.

Or, if you don't think you need someone to serve you in that way, don't hire a lawyer. But they are being paid for providing you a service, not because they hunted you down, stuck a gun in your face, and demanded money.
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#326351 - 06/03/20 07:02 PM Re: The Maximum Wage [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
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Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3353
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Its very strange. People don't seem to understand that if they are paying somebody to do something, and they don't perform you just get another one. This is particularly true of Attorneys, Accountants, and Doctors. I had a bill collection agency for years. It was one of the best jobs I ever had. Nobody was ever angry with us. It was really quite simple. If they owed the money we files a suit in court. I went through a LOT of attorneys. My main problem was that they all, eventually, wanted more money. I always settled that with just hiring another. There is ALWAYS another attorney! Never got rich but it worked. All the attorney had to do was sign stuff. The computer did all the pleadings and we only rarely went to court. If the debtor had anything we bumped it to superior court. The name of the company was Final Notice.

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#326357 - 06/04/20 12:32 AM Re: The Maximum Wage [Re: CPWILL]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10253
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
If you think that the lawyer isn't giving you good advice, fire them and get another. Lawyers that are terrible at serving their client's won't do as well as those who are great at it (shrug), and the former can charge more than the latter as a result of the difference in how well they serve their clients.

This is a good example of what I meant by limited life experience. I'm guessing you haven't ever had to hire a lawyer.

My point, which you have dodged fairly completely, is that lawyers can charge an exorbitant amount of money, whether they are good or not. You naively think that the "free market" will separate the good from the bad, but it doesn't. I have engaged too many lawyers in my life, and I have yet to find a single one that does a good, competent, and earnest job. Part of this I blame the legal system for, as I have also never experienced a good judge. They are all interested in "resolution", not "justice" (this has been said to me directly by several). And, if one of them should put the proper effort into prosecuting your case, you'd soon be out of money, before finding justice, much less resolution. They generally do not care one whit about the merits of your case, at least not until the final hours before a court hearing, and then probably still not.

So your "advice" sounds ludicrous to me, the fantasies of someone who has not experienced the reality of it. For that I forgive you, but you might try a bit more introspection before dispensing worthless advice based on hollow ideological beliefs.
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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