Current Topics
Disqualification Clause
by perotista
1 second ago
3 word story game
by TatumAH
22 minutes 5 seconds ago
RoundTable at the End of the Trump Regime!
by TatumAH
34 minutes 56 seconds ago
Another reason for impeachment
by pondering_it_all
Yesterday at 03:54 AM
Post-Election Mischief
by perotista
Yesterday at 12:40 AM
Just got this from the nytimes - thought I would pass it on
by jgw
01/25/21 07:24 PM
What is wealth? How is it made? How is it accounted?
by logtroll
01/24/21 11:34 PM
Profile of a Trump Supporter
by jgw
01/24/21 08:03 PM
The Departed - 2020
by perotista
01/24/21 02:14 PM
We have had problems before (and a bit of humor)
by pondering_it_all
01/23/21 08:42 PM
The Trump Era's silver lining
by Greger
01/23/21 05:19 PM
The insurrectionist next door
by jgw
01/22/21 07:05 PM
An amusement - no politics!
by TatumAH
01/22/21 07:00 PM
An alternate to Impeachment
by perotista
01/20/21 10:52 PM
A Parler archive converted into an interactive map of the Capitol attack
by pdx rick
01/20/21 09:54 PM
Radicalized Rightwinger with 500 ammo rounds and fake Inaugural pass arrested
by Irked
01/18/21 02:50 AM
Bees do it better!
by jgw
01/15/21 09:35 PM
The coming crash
by pondering_it_all
01/14/21 10:33 PM
Unity and Healing
by jgw
01/14/21 07:23 PM
Whither Josh Hawley?
by perotista
01/13/21 07:13 PM
Forum Stats
6292 Members
61 Forums
17060 Topics
305675 Posts

Max Online: 294 @ 12/06/17 12:57 AM
Google Adsense
Page 6 of 12 < 1 2 ... 4 5 6 7 8 ... 11 12 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#324826 - 04/27/20 12:23 AM Re: Is there a free market solution for the pandemic and economic collapse? [Re: pdx rick]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 480
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
You have to admit that democratic socialism was the only tool to get us Americans through the pandemic, capitalism certainly failed us.


based on what? I have to admit no such thing as no such thing is self-evident. Quite the contrary - several government's and governmental organizations appear to have screwed this pandemic up spectacularly. [/quote]
Nice deflection. [/quote]

It's hardly a deflection at all. Government institutions have thus far not generally performed well - which, after all, is hat government institutions generally do.

Quote:
How is capitalism working out for you today?


Pretty well. I got a coffee at starbucks and some grass seed, weed killer, and a square-front shovel at Home Depot to fill in some bald spots on my back lawn and break up some mud on the road by my house. The kid's Education Savings Accounts and our IRA's have mostly recovered from the stock market crash earlier this year, and I'm able to use this handy dandy laptop on which I have all kinds of neat software loaded to access the internet and go to privately-owned sites where people who are also on their laptops with all kinds of neat software on it accessing the internet through a provider come on to tell me how terrible the capitalism that provided me with all these things and freedom is. smile

Quote:
Are you working?


Well, it's Sunday, so, no, but I'm still employed, which yes, is nice smile

Quote:
Have you cashed your Trump check yet?


It direct-deposited, as my checking account was linked to my taxes. I sent some of it to help people in Italy, some of it to my church, spent some of it on aforementioned house-repair items, and have put the rest aside into my "Something Always Happens" account so that I can give to meet any needs that pop up in my neighborhood smile.


*** You later added ***

Quote:
Based on so many businesses closed and 26M Americans ou of work. How's that for a starter?


Indeed. The government shut down American businesses and, partly because they didn't fully address that issue when they did so, as a result, threw 26 million Americans out of work. It's a rough thing indeed. frown

So it looks like Government is:

A) bad at identifying, anticipating, and fighting the virus, but
B) good at creating mass unemployment.

Hooray.


Edited by CPWILL (04/27/20 12:27 AM)
_________________________
Winter Is Coming

Top
#324832 - 04/27/20 01:18 AM Re: Is there a free market solution for the pandemic and economic collapse? [Re: CPWILL]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10574
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Thanks for playing. I didn’t mean to make you defensive.
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

Top
#324833 - 04/27/20 01:40 AM Re: Is there a free market solution for the pandemic and economic collapse? [Re: logtroll]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 480
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Thanks for playing. I didn’t mean to make you defensive.


Oh no worries - I'm not smile Apologies if it came off that way.
_________________________
Winter Is Coming

Top
#324836 - 04/27/20 03:24 AM Re: Is there a free market solution for the pandemic and economic collapse? [Re: CPWILL]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43762
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
So it looks like Government is:

A) bad at identifying, anticipating, and fighting the virus, but
B) good at creating mass unemployment.

Hooray.


Good to know you used YOUR government money for helping others.

Conservatives ALWAYS blame government, instead of each individual Administration. Obama put into place a world-wide pandemic response team. Trump as you know, took it apart in April 2018 and was ill-prepared to lead us through the pandemic. Trump, "the hardest working President in the history of America" might as well have sat around with his thumb up his ass watching TV all day - oh wait...he DOES do that.

Those 26M need money, if it were not for government helping them, how do you think they would have fared? I am going to suggest that there needs to be a second round of checks.

California government has smart Leadership. It's not by coincidence that said smart Leadership is run by a Democrat. i say this because for each of the past 40 years when there was a deficit in California, said recession occurred under a Republican Leadership. The whole premise of the Republican Party is to bankrupt government so they can say that social services cannot be afforded.

California came into the black with reserves under Democratic Leadership for the past 10 years. The whole premise of he Democrat Party is to support the working and he poor and to provide safety nets.

California used information in February 2020 from a company in Canada called BlueDot, a small Canadian company with an algorithm that scours the world for outbreaks of infectious disease. That is why California closed-down early and is in better shape than other states.

The Trump Administration is using government technology headed by Brad Pascale to run numbers for Trump's re-election - as you know, everything is about Trump and not us American citizens.

So yes, government DOES work, but not under Republican or Conservative Leadership. Americans get that, that is why there was a blue wave in 2018 and will be again in 2020.

smile


_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#324838 - 04/27/20 03:51 AM Re: Is there a free market solution for the pandemic and economic collapse? [Re: pdx rick]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 480
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
So it looks like Government is:

A) bad at identifying, anticipating, and fighting the virus, but
B) good at creating mass unemployment.

Hooray.


Good to know you used YOUR government money for helping others.


I mean, not all of it smile But we have a rule - any money that comes into the house, a portion of it gets given away.

Quote:
Conservatives ALWAYS blame government, instead of each individual Administration.


President's aren't God-Kings. They don't control the crops, they don't use their powers to make the floods come or stop, and there isn't a dial on their desk that causes GDP to rise or fall. Trump didn't cause the CCP to act as it did, Italy to act as it did, the WHO to act as it did, or New York to act as it did. Is he a fool and a buffoon who badly screwed this up? Yup. That, however (and, this is often hard for people who truly loathe him to grasp) doesn't mean that other entities and governments weren't also fools and buffoons.


This kind of response - jumbled, inchoate, disorganized, working at cross-purposes, poorly informed and slow to respond - this is how government generally works :shrug:


Quote:
Obama put into place a world-wide pandemic response.


smile Hey - you misspelled "Bush" there wink

Quote:
Those 26M need money, if it were not for government helping them, how do you think they would have fared?


Given especially that it was government that shut the economy down, I heartily agree, the government should shield them against the effects of its own decisions. Personally I don't think the $1200-to-every-adult was the wisest way to do that (I would have made payroll deductible by 125 or 150%, and backed that with the payroll loan/grant program instead, for businesses that ran out of cash, in order to incentivize and enable employers to keep them employed and paid while locked down), but it's not exactly outside the boundaries of good governance, here.

Quote:
I am going to suggest that there needs to be a second round of checks.


I think we'd be wiser to shoring up employment, pay, and the unemployed, vice giving free money to everyone, but, Congress may very well do such a thing.

Quote:
California government has smart Leadership.


..... This would be the super-smart government whose train project ran more than $100 Billion over budget, who banned straws based on made-up numbers from a 9 year old, who has ran up more than a Trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities, and who is driving out its own middle class?

Quote:
It's not by coincidence that said smart Leadership is run by a Democrat. i say this because for each of the past 40 years when there was a deficit in California, that occurred under a Republican Leadership. California came into the black with reserves under Democratic Leadership for the past 10 years.


Yup. They are narrowing their tax base to a few highly successful companies. I wonder what's going to happen when those companies start to seek out the lower-costs that can be achieved through teleworkers in Nashville and outposts in Raleigh smile


Quote:
California used information from a company in Canada called BlueDot, a small Canadian company with an algorithm that scours the world for outbreaks of infectious disease. That is why California closed-down early and is in better shape than other states.


A private company provided effective early indications and warnings of a strategic threat? You don't say smile

Well. Hooray for Capitalism smile


Edited by CPWILL (04/27/20 03:00 PM)
_________________________
Winter Is Coming

Top
#324839 - 04/27/20 03:58 AM Re: Is there a free market solution for the pandemic and economic collapse? [Re: CPWILL]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43762
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
smile Hey - you misspelled "Bush" there wink

So a Democratic took a Republican idea, and made it even better, good to know! smile

Quote:
In 2016 the Obama administration told then President-elect Trump and his advisers of the high likelihood that a pandemic would strike the nation and advised the incoming administration to take appropriate steps to reduce its impact. Obama officials also left their Trump counterparts a step-by-step guide on how to respond to a pandemic. Trump and his inner circle ignored that guidance.

- Raw Story

Quote:
It’s impossible to assess the impact of the 2018 decision to disband the unit, she said. Cameron noted that biological experts remain at the White House, but she says it’s clear that eliminating the office contributed to what she called a “sluggish domestic response.” She said that shortly before Trump took office, the unit was watching a rising number of cases in China of a deadly strain of the flu and a yellow fever outbreak in Angola.

“It’s unclear whether the decision to disband the directorate, which was made in May 2018, after John Bolton became national security adviser, was a tactical move to downgrade the issue or whether it was part of the White House’s interest in simplifying and shrinking the National Security Council staff,” Cameron says.

The NSC during the Obama administration grew to about 250 professionals, according to Trump’s current national security adviser, Robert O’Brien. The staff has been cut to about 110 or 115 staffers, he said.

AP News
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#324840 - 04/27/20 04:03 AM Re: Is there a free market solution for the pandemic and economic collapse? [Re: CPWILL]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43762
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
Quote:
California government has smart Leadership.


..... This would be the super-smart government whose train project ran more than $100 Billion over budget, who banned straws based on made-up numbers from a 9 year old, who has ran up more than a Trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities, and who is driving out its own middle class?


The California High-Speed Rail Authority was established in 1996 after decades of advocacy for building a high speed rail system in California. The passage of Proposition 1A in 2008, followed by the awarding of federal stimulus funds in 2010, established the initial funding for the California High-Speed Rail system.

Pete Wilson (R) served as the 36th Governor of California from 1991 to 1999
Arnold Alois Schwarzenegger (R) served as the 38th Governor of California from 2003 to 2011.

Yes, Republicans fcked up the high-speed rail. smile Quelle surprise. coffee Thanks for bringing that up! smile

Citation for the straw hyperbole and driving-out the middle class, please. smile
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#324841 - 04/27/20 04:08 AM Re: Is there a free market solution for the pandemic and economic collapse? [Re: CPWILL]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43762
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
Well. Hooray for Capitalism smile

26M workers whose jobs are shut-down disagree. Good to know that essential services like Home Depot remained open so that you could buy lawn seed. Pretty sure you must live in one of the states not shut down to have a Starbucks. Didn't know spending $5 for coffee was essential. coffee
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#324847 - 04/27/20 10:38 AM Re: Is there a free market solution for the pandemic and economic collapse? [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10574
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Re: Is there a free market solution for the pandemic and economic collapse?

The title of this topic is pretty specific, but very ignored in the associated debate/discussion/holding-forth. Is that because the answer is simply “no”?
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

Top
#324849 - 04/27/20 12:54 PM Re: Is there a free market solution for the pandemic and economic collapse? [Re: CPWILL]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10574
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
... I got a coffee at starbucks and some grass seed, weed killer, and a square-front shovel at Home Depot...

Hold the phones! I may have missed one sure-fire solution - how to properly bury the dead, free-market Capitalist style?
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

Top
Page 6 of 12 < 1 2 ... 4 5 6 7 8 ... 11 12 >

Who's Online
0 registered (), 53 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Superfly, GreatNewsTonight, danarhea, RoughDraft274, CPWILL
6292 Registered Users
A2