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#326199 - 05/29/20 08:25 PM Re: The Far-Right's Civil War aka "boogaloo" [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
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Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
A lot of very smart people who can just keep their heads down until Trump is gone. Won't be long now.

Can't wait! smile
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#326211 - 05/30/20 03:31 AM Re: The Far-Right's Civil War aka "boogaloo" [Re: CPWILL]
rporter314 Offline
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Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7281
Loc: Highlands, Tx
why would you not think anarchical libertarians don't support LE?

These folks hate the federal government. Think Bannon and his deconstruction of the federal government. He loves LE and I am sure libertarians would love to do some deconstructing.

I think what you see as philosophically disparate does not imply they would not hold hands and fiddle as Washington goes up in flames.


Edited by rporter314 (05/30/20 03:49 AM)
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#326212 - 05/30/20 03:48 AM Re: The Far-Right's Civil War aka "boogaloo" [Re: pondering_it_all]
rporter314 Offline
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Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7281
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I wouldn't count those chickens yet.

Mr Trump has already planted the seeds of a rigged election (so why is it not rigged when a Republican wins???) in case he loses. This is more than an exercise spitballing in some late night coffee shop about the pros and cons of Zen. The current crop of Republicans are complicit in his delusion and there is an outside possibility the SC will uphold any suit alleging rampant voter fraud and throw the election to Mr Trump. We have Senate Republicans doing political hit jobs for Mr Trump, so why not consider he may not leave office? Who would escort him out of the WH? He is the CiC. If Mr Trump says the election was illegitimate, why would the military not consider him to still be CiC? Would the joint chiefs take military action? I think not.

One may think I am a bit speculative, but I am not speculating about his personality disorder. He is a narcissist. To what ends would a narcissist go to fulfill their delusion ... especially if he is the most powerful person in the world.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

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#326214 - 05/30/20 03:30 PM Re: The Far-Right's Civil War aka "boogaloo" [Re: rporter314]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 470
Originally Posted By: rporter314
I wouldn't count those chickens yet.

Mr Trump has already planted the seeds of a rigged election (so why is it not rigged when a Republican wins???)


Do you think he'll blame Diebold voting machines, the SCOTUS, Russian Interference, or voter suppression?
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#326216 - 05/30/20 03:54 PM Re: The Far-Right's Civil War aka "boogaloo" [Re: rporter314]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 470
Originally Posted By: rporter314
why would you not think anarchical libertarians don't support LE?


Because they don't. Have you spent much time in their social media? I get a bit of it washed over from some libertarian ties.

Anarchial Libertarians:

1. Can be both left or right wing, and
2. Don't generally think much of cops at all, seeing them rather as an oppressive standing army that suppresses individual liberty.


Quote:
These folks hate the federal government. Think Bannon and his deconstruction of the federal government. He loves LE and I am sure libertarians would love to do some deconstructing.


Bannon and his ilk is on the opposite side of the conservative spectrum from the Libertarians - they are Big State, Big Government, Nationalists.

Quote:
I think what you see as philosophically disparate does not imply they would not hold hands and fiddle as Washington goes up in flames.


The Anarchists want to be rid of Washington. The Statists want to rule it.
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Winter Is Coming

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#326224 - 05/30/20 07:45 PM Re: The Far-Right's Civil War aka "boogaloo" [Re: CPWILL]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17309
Loc: Florida
You got to burn that MF to the ground before you rule it.
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#326226 - 05/30/20 08:15 PM Re: The Far-Right's Civil War aka "boogaloo" [Re: CPWILL]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7281
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
Do you think he'll blame Diebold voting machines, the SCOTUS, Russian Interference, or voter suppression?

For starters Mr Trump is a well known liar. He is a narcissist and is therefore compelled to lie to maintain his delusions he is the greatest human to have ever lived etc etc. So does it really matter which and how many scapegoats he uses to incite {{{{THE BASE}}}}.

Originally Posted By: Verified Voting Foundation, Inc.
Far too many states use unreliable and insecure electronic voting machines, and many states have made their situation worse by adding some forms of Internet voting for some voters, which cannot be checked for accuracy at all. Even in states where verifiable systems are used, too often the check on the voting system’s function and accuracy is not done. The voting equipment now in use are aging; resources are severely impacted by the state of the economy over the past several years; shortages of both equipment and human resources are likely. After all the effort necessary to overcome the other hurdles to casting a ballot, it is patently unfair that once you get to the ballot box, that the ballot itself fails you. Taken together, these problems threaten to silently disenfranchise voters, potentially in sufficient numbers to alter outcomes.

So clearly he would start with the machines.

You left out mail-in voting. He would also blame teenage gangsters stealing ballots to ensure anti-Trump votes. So far in my neck of the woods, the only teenagers I have seen on a rampage are Trump supporters who drink until drunk and wave Trump maga flags.

Why blame SCOTUS? Remember how they installed Pres Bush? Floridians lost their right to vote. Count the votes, no matter how long it takes.

Why blame the Russians? Well he could if they don't give him enough resources. Even though Mr Trump has no acting chops, he would say in his best waterfront voice, " I coulda been a contender" if only the Russians had given me some dirt on Joe.

Voter suppression? Really???? Republicans are all about voter suppression and Democrats are all about allowing as many qualified people as possible the opportunity to vote.

So what you really meant was Mr Trump will say Democrats allowed dead people to vote, they allowed people to vote multiple times, they allowed illegals to votes, they allowed felons to vote, they allowed blacks to vote, they allowed etc etc.

And those are just the easy obvious ones. Shoot, Mr Trump may claim space aliens voted against him.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

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#326227 - 05/30/20 08:50 PM Re: The Far-Right's Civil War aka "boogaloo" [Re: CPWILL]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7281
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
Because they don't.
A bit rigid.

Yes both left and right however as PM Churchill putatively said, "Never let a good crisis go to waste". That you would believe these folks would not combine forces, despite philosophical differences, is a bit naive. As so many conservatives have said about ME terrorists, the friend of my etc etc.

Quote:
Bannon and his ilk is on the opposite side of the conservative spectrum from the Libertarians - they are Big State, Big Government, Nationalists.
Bannon is an interesting case study of what real conservatives are all about. They want to destroy the federal government in order to maintain a tighter grip on power. Mr Trump is the proverbial wet dream for conservatives. So there is great appeal for a deconstructed federal government from many quarters of conservative thinkers and even a greater appeal if they can maintain power forever, despite being a minority in modern America. It is more than clear to many liberals, the real agenda for conservatives is to maintain that death grip on power. Check Sen Mc Connell and Graham. Both have appealed to federal judges to step down now so very young politically motivated ultra conservatives can be appointed to the federal bench and serve for the next two generations. Can you imagine that for the next 40 years any law passed by a Democrat Congress would be struck down ... purely on political grounds.

Quote:
The Anarchists want to be rid of Washington. The Statists want to rule it.
What makes you think anarchist care what comes after?

Modern anarchism is so fragmented and having a wide variety of agendas and objectives, to simply said they are against government is disingenuous. Many of these in America would like to share the power which has been denied them for a variety of reasons.

The bottom line is opportunities abound in times of crisis and for any group to not act at this juncture would be derelict to their constituencies and goals.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

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#326230 - 05/30/20 09:12 PM Re: The Far-Right's Civil War aka "boogaloo" [Re: CPWILL]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7281
Loc: Highlands, Tx
O just found this ... a reporter who sees the strange brew

Quote:
So we’re seeing a strange alignment occurring by some groups who are anti-government on the right and therefore anti-police because they think the police are too oppressive to them, aligning themselves with people like Black Lives Matter and saying, ‘hey, we’re one because we both don’t like the police,’ but I’m here to tell you they are not one, their intention is to destroy government and the system of justice, as opposed to calling for justice within the system.


and if it gets any stranger, we'll have dogs and cats living together
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

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#326241 - 05/31/20 07:39 PM Re: The Far-Right's Civil War aka "boogaloo" [Re: rporter314]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 470
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Quote:
Because they don't.
A bit rigid.


I'm speaking from experience, and, in this cases it follows logically: Anarchists don't support LE, and, as they are defined against the state having the coercive power to force you to take or not take particular actions, are ideologically not going to support LE.

Quote:
Yes both left and right however as PM Churchill putatively said, "Never let a good crisis go to waste". That you would believe these folks would not combine forces, despite philosophical differences, is a bit naive. As so many conservatives have said about ME terrorists, the friend of my etc etc.


I've spent pretty much my entire adult life dealing with the problem of terrorism.

Anarchist Libertarians and Statist Big Government advocates aren't going to ally to take down the State, not least because the latter doesn't want to, and the former hates the latter almost as much as the latter hates the former.

Quote:
Quote:
Bannon and his ilk is on the opposite side of the conservative spectrum from the Libertarians - they are Big State, Big Government, Nationalists.
Bannon is an interesting case study of what real conservatives are all about.


.....no. Bannon & co. is (at best) representative of an often-rejected branch that straddles concerns of both broad sides and which exists outside of what has generally been American Conservatism.

Quote:
They want to destroy the federal government in order to maintain a tighter grip on power.


Also no. They want to seize control of the Federal Government and expand it's power in order to steer more economic and social outcomes that they prefer.

Quote:
Mr Trump is the proverbial wet dream for conservatives.


Also no, which is why there was a groundswell of conservative opposition to Trump in the 2015 primary and 2016 election. There was no comparable NeverHillary movement on the left in 2016, nor a NeverBernie movement this year.

Quote:
So there is great appeal for a deconstructed federal government from many quarters of conservative thinkers and even a greater appeal if they can maintain power forever, despite being a minority in modern America. It is more than clear to many liberals, the real agenda for conservatives is to maintain that death grip on power. Check Sen Mc Connell and Graham.


You are confusing politicians with conservatives, however, yes, generally the purpose of political movements is to achieve their aims. To the extent that those conservatives who advocate abandoning conservative principles in the naked pursuit of power do so, they claim to be merely following suit vis-a-vie the opposition, in order to not be unfairly hampered.

Quote:
Both have appealed to federal judges to step down now so very young politically motivated ultra conservatives can be appointed to the federal bench and serve for the next two generations. Can you imagine that for the next 40 years any law passed by a Democrat Congress would be struck down ... purely on political grounds.


That would look very much like the last 3 and a half years, or so, with the sides reversed.

Quote:
The Anarchists want to be rid of Washington. The Statists want to rule it.
What makes you think anarchist care what comes after?[/quote]

The fact that that is the ideology's reason for existence.
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