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#326497 - 06/10/20 07:26 PM Re: The Far-Right's Civil War aka "boogaloo" [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10128
Loc: North San Diego County
Looking at the list of people charged with federal crimes in response to the unrest, most of the charges that will stick are for extreme righties making bombs and such. I was surprised. Yet another Trump initiative that backfires.

But the truth is that people protesting police brutality are unlikely to use violence themselves. And the people with all those guns are almost always right-wing extremists, just itching for an opportunity to use them.

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#326500 - 06/10/20 07:53 PM Re: The Far-Right's Civil War aka "boogaloo" [Re: CPWILL]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43114
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
laugh Irony Much? smile

Equivalence: The state or condition of being equivalent; equality.
the state of being equivalent or interchangeable
the state or fact of being equivalent; equality in value, force, significance, etc.


As I said - to put forth an equivalency is to claim that two items are roughly equal in the matter being discussed. I not only didn't do that, the point that the two were not equivalent was precisely the one I was making.


Originally Posted By: CPWILL
What is happening to the Uighurs is an order of magnitude or more worse than what African Americans face in this country today. That was the point.


Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Your pseudo-intellectually is completely laughable. Try learning what words mean before you try to opine in public discussions. Just a thought. smile


How can something be "more or worse?" Was that a clever attempt to state "more or less?" I stand by my post. smile
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#326509 - 06/11/20 02:27 PM Re: The Far-Right's Civil War aka "boogaloo" [Re: pdx rick]
CPWILL Offline
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Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 423
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
Equivalence: The state or condition of being equivalent; equality.
the state of being equivalent or interchangeable
the state or fact of being equivalent; equality in value, force, significance, etc.


As I said - to put forth an equivalency is to claim that two items are roughly equal in the matter being discussed. I not only didn't do that, the point that the two were not equivalent was precisely the one I was making.

Originally Posted By: CPWILL
What is happening to the Uighurs is an order of magnitude or more worse than what African Americans face in this country today. That was the point.

Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Your pseudo-intellectually is completely laughable. Try learning what words mean before you try to opine in public discussions. Just a thought. smile

How can something be "more or worse?" Was that a clever attempt to state "more or less?" I stand by my post. smile



Ah. You have a reading comprehension issue. No worries smile

Here is the quote:

Originally Posted By: cpwill
"What is happening to the Uighurs is an order of magnitude or more worse than what African Americans face in this country today. That was the point."


Do you know what's not in there? The phrase "more or worse", which, due to your confusion, you thought might mean "more or less". Instead (here, I'll bold the relevant section for you):

Originally Posted By: cpwill
"What is happening to the Uighurs is an order of magnitude or more worse than what African Americans face in this country today. That was the point."


So the phrase "more or worse" does not (as you claimed) appear in that section, but, rather, instead, the term "or more" is used in reference to "an order of magnitude". This quote makes the claim that what is happening is either:

A. An order of magnitude worse than what African Americans face in this country today

or

B. More than an order of magnitude worse than what African Americans face in this country today.

Personally I would lean heavily in favor of the latter option being more likely, but, in neither instance does it suggest an equivalency.


Interestingly enough, even if the phrase had been "an order of magnitude more or worse", it still would not have claimed an equivalency, and would, instead have only suggested Options A and B above. wink


Edited by CPWILL (06/11/20 02:30 PM)
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#326511 - 06/11/20 02:32 PM Re: The Far-Right's Civil War aka "boogaloo" [Re: pondering_it_all]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 423
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Looking at the list of people charged with federal crimes in response to the unrest, most of the charges that will stick are for extreme righties making bombs and such. I was surprised. Yet another Trump initiative that backfires.


.....how is that a backfire? Surely you are not so sunk into tribalism that you would regret the arrest and prosecution of those who would engage in reckless violence if they happened to be left-leaning?
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#326512 - 06/11/20 02:46 PM Re: The Far-Right's Civil War aka "boogaloo" [Re: CPWILL]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10279
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
.....how is that a backfire? Surely you are not so sunk into tribalism that you would regret the arrest and prosecution of those who would engage in reckless violence if they happened to be left-leaning?

It's so simple when you have a crystal ball that tells you who is leaning which way!
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“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#326513 - 06/11/20 02:51 PM Re: The Far-Right's Civil War aka "boogaloo" [Re: CPWILL]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10279
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
Ah. You have a reading comprehension issue. No worries smile

Gotta love them non-ad hominem pokes!

I think the issue is not equivalencies, but false or irrelevant equivalencies that are useless for a real discussion of anything, i.e. a distraction.
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#326514 - 06/11/20 03:01 PM Re: The Far-Right's Civil War aka "boogaloo" [Re: pdx rick]
Hamish Howl Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 608
Loc: Tucson, AZ
So let me get this straight: We can not or should not improve our relationship with American black folks (ie, stop killing them) because the Uighurs have it worse?
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#326517 - 06/11/20 03:08 PM Re: The Far-Right's Civil War aka "boogaloo" [Re: Hamish Howl]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 423
Originally Posted By: Hamish Howl
It's just amazing how all the voting machine problems just happen to occur in largely black areas.

https://apnews.com/e7ea6e919fadb995c407eea3a4450176


Given that those machines and sites are generally run by the County Governments, I'm not sure that's a narrative you want to push...


Edited by CPWILL (06/11/20 03:12 PM)
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#326519 - 06/11/20 03:10 PM Re: The Far-Right's Civil War aka "boogaloo" [Re: Hamish Howl]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 423
Originally Posted By: Hamish Howl
So let me get this straight: We can not or should not improve our relationship with American black folks (ie, stop killing them) because the Uighurs have it worse?


No. The point was that, despite continued abuses that exist in our country, this Liberal, individual-rights-oriented Western society of ours is still

A) better than the alternatives and
B) improving


Whether or not the Chinese government is currently engaging in a form of genocide should have no bearing on whether or not or how we choose to address issues in this country, except that it should offer us a cautionary tale against the horror that can come when you define, dehumanize, and deride people based on their ethnicity.


Edited by CPWILL (06/11/20 03:11 PM)
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#326520 - 06/11/20 03:15 PM Re: The Far-Right's Civil War aka "boogaloo" [Re: CPWILL]
Hamish Howl Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 608
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
Originally Posted By: Hamish Howl
So let me get this straight: We can not or should not improve our relationship with American black folks (ie, stop killing them) because the Uighurs have it worse?


No. The point was that, despite continued abuses that exist in our country, this Liberal, individual-rights-oriented Western society of ours is still

A) better than the alternatives and
B) improving


Whether or not the Chinese government is currently engaging in a form of genocide should have no bearing on whether or not or how we choose to address issues in this country, except that it should offer us a cautionary tale against the horror that can come when you define, dehumanize, and deride people based on their ethnicity.



"Better" in this case is not good enough, and I really can't improve on MLK's reply to 'be patient, things are improving'."

I don't care if we're better than China. China is not even relevant to the situation here. The situation here is unacceptable and has to change, whether or not that change is accepted by our government and/or the so-called "silent majority".
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