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#326462 - 06/09/20 06:54 PM Defund the Police
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3451
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
"Defund the Police" or, how to lose an election.

Apparently this doesn't mean to take all the money away from police departments but taking some money away so that some of what they do gets split off and given to experts in the field. A good example of that is making police departments deal with everybody with mental illness. The current solution is to take a person, who has mental illness, convict them of a crime, send them to prison which then puts them in solitary for the rest of their lives. I am, incidentally, for these kinds of actions.

Anyway the very phrase "Defund the Police" can easily lose the Dems the next election. Trump has already seen the possibilities of this one and probably will setup his entire campaign around "Defund the Police" as he is already getting traction with it. If you Google: https://www.marketplace.org/2020/06/08/what-it-means-to-defund-police/ you will see what I am talking about.

We have already seen what "Socialist" did for Bernie (lost him the election). Now those on the left have cleverly thought of a brand new clever phrase which can seriously wreck them. I read one guy who is also worried and he said that if Democrats want to use the phrase then they had better make sure to explain it in the same breath.

Like the man says; The Democrats have the capacity to REALLY screw it up!

Oh, I know. I am not trying to start another argument not unlike those we have had over "Socialist". Hopefully some have learned their lesson but I suspect, not.

There are a lot of postings on "Defund the Police". Here is one.
https://www.marketplace.org/2020/06/08/what-it-means-to-defund-police/


Edited by jgw (06/09/20 06:58 PM)

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#326464 - 06/09/20 07:16 PM Re: Defund the Police [Re: jgw]
Hamish Howl Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 608
Loc: Tucson, AZ
If we as a nation cannot elect someone who will take concrete steps to correct a festering wound, then we deserve whatever we get. Nationwide, the police have militarized and become more brutal. While there are only a small percentage of murderous cops, the rest protect them. They are essentially a state-funded gang.

Police do not need MRAPS. They don't need to look like robocop. They don't need to shoot rubber bullets into the face of a homeless guy in a wheelchair, for no other reason than "Why not?"

But if the American public is dead set on an authoritarian police state, then the people will have spoken.
_________________________
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#326476 - 06/10/20 12:56 AM Re: Defund the Police [Re: jgw]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 423
Originally Posted By: jgw
"Defund the Police" or, how to lose an election.

Apparently this doesn't mean to take all the money away from police departments but taking some money away so that some of what they do gets split off and given to experts in the field. A good example of that is making police departments deal with everybody with mental illness. The current solution is to take a person, who has mental illness, convict them of a crime, send them to prison which then puts them in solitary for the rest of their lives. I am, incidentally, for these kinds of actions.

Anyway the very phrase "Defund the Police" can easily lose the Dems the next election. Trump has already seen the possibilities of this one and probably will setup his entire campaign around "Defund the Police" as he is already getting traction with it. If you Google: https://www.marketplace.org/2020/06/08/what-it-means-to-defund-police/ you will see what I am talking about.

We have already seen what "Socialist" did for Bernie (lost him the election). Now those on the left have cleverly thought of a brand new clever phrase which can seriously wreck them. I read one guy who is also worried and he said that if Democrats want to use the phrase then they had better make sure to explain it in the same breath.

Like the man says; The Democrats have the capacity to REALLY screw it up!

Oh, I know. I am not trying to start another argument not unlike those we have had over "Socialist". Hopefully some have learned their lesson but I suspect, not.

There are a lot of postings on "Defund the Police". Here is one.
https://www.marketplace.org/2020/06/08/what-it-means-to-defund-police/


That. Or.


This provides Bidena perfect foil to demonstrate to America that he's not the Crazy Left, but, by rejecting it he can - like when Clinton rejected Sista Soulja - firmly position himself more in the middle.
_________________________
Winter Is Coming

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#326495 - 06/10/20 07:14 PM Re: Defund the Police [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3451
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I was watching tv last night and noticed that there was very little 'de-fund' talk. Instead there was a lot of talk explaining what folks want to do without the 'defund'. Hopefully this means that the 'de-fund' folks are going to not use the term which would be flat out great as I REALLY want Trump gone!

('de-fund' gives Trump yet another weapon to use in trying to wreck the Democratic efforts). Its interesting. "de-" means, basically, 'reverse'. So, De-fund means, again basically, "reverse funding', ie. NO funding. When I first heard it I actually thought they wanted to just shut down all police departments. That is not what they meant, they just choose a term that was catchy and, again, confusing unless explained.

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#326504 - 06/11/20 02:51 AM Re: Defund the Police [Re: jgw]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17047
Loc: Florida
Perhaps we should think of it as re-funding the police department?

Reallocating funds spent on weaponry and incarceration into social services. What the hell are cops doing in schools anyway? Why do cops always shoot first? They always ride in with guns blazing.

Lightly armed gendarmes who always talk first and shoot last. Who can call an ambulance, a family member, or a squad car. Technology makes tracking people down pretty easy these days.
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Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#326505 - 06/11/20 12:51 PM Re: Defund the Police [Re: Greger]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3882
Loc: Eugene, OR
Still lurking out here. How about this idea that originated in ‘lil old Eugene decades ago:

CAHOOTS
_________________________
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.

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#326507 - 06/11/20 02:16 PM Re: Defund the Police [Re: Greger]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 423
Originally Posted By: Greger
What the hell are cops doing in schools anyway?


For some schools it's necessary to maintain internal security, however, generally, that trend began as a response to school shootings. I'm not against arming teachers as a response instead of putting police in there, mind you, but that is why they are there.
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Winter Is Coming

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#326508 - 06/11/20 02:27 PM Re: Defund the Police [Re: Ken Condon]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10278
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: Ken Condon
Still lurking out here. How about this idea that originated in ‘lil old Eugene decades ago:

CAHOOTS

This is proof that Eugene-ics can save the human race!
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#326532 - 06/11/20 05:43 PM Re: Defund the Police [Re: CPWILL]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3451
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
cops in school for, I think, two reasons. The first one was to control gang members in high schools and the second was to deal with shooters of students.

What seems to be happening is that the police being assigned are eithers screwups or semi-retired. There have been a number of instances wherein the police have savaged students or simple did nothing. I do know that there have been police on the premises when shootings were happening and their presence didn't do a thing.

I also know that schools REALLY need nurses, advisors and somebody to help with mental problems.

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#326535 - 06/11/20 06:01 PM Re: Defund the Police [Re: jgw]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 423
Originally Posted By: jgw
cops in school for, I think, two reasons. The first one was to control gang members in high schools and the second was to deal with shooters of students.

What seems to be happening is that the police being assigned are eithers screwups or semi-retired. There have been a number of instances wherein the police have savaged students or simple did nothing. I do know that there have been police on the premises when shootings were happening and their presence didn't do a thing.


This is where we run into the problem that the plural of "anecdote" is not "data". I honestly have no idea if anyone has taken a look, empirically, at whether or not the presence of resources officers has reduced crime in schools from where it otherwise might be, or how many times they've stopped or otherwise kept an active shooter from hunting students.


Quote:
I also know that schools REALLY need nurses, advisors and somebody to help with mental problems.


I believe they already have those folks as well. I would suggest that, in terms of where we should be increasing or decreasing personnel, there probably isn't a "Schools More Y" or "Schools Need Less X". Probably individual schools need different things, depending on their local situation.
_________________________
Winter Is Coming

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#326575 - 06/12/20 07:51 PM Re: Defund the Police [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3451
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Schools do have nurses, advisors, etc. They just don't have enough! If you know any teachers they will tell you that. They also need mental health professionals of one sort or another and most schools just don't have any of those. As far as the cops go I remember, last year I think, watching the policeman hiding when a shooter came - it was pretty disgusting. On the other hand the cop was retired, old, and was not real eager to get shot. Since police have been assigned to schools there has also been constant reports on bad things done buy them to students.

I have no idea if they have done any good because, if they have, its not been reported all that much. On the other hand we are talking about American Media, here. This means that they will automatically report stories of bad cops, teachers, etc abusing but not all that many stories about the same folks doing good for the school and teachers. Its unfortunate but it's the way it is.

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#326589 - 06/13/20 05:42 PM Re: Defund the Police [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3451
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I have been watching the various plans to 'fix' the police thing. I have also decided that the only way to fix the police is to make sure that they are forced to take responsibility for their actions. If they break the law then they should be tried in court - no messing around, no union etc, When they break the law then they are treated exactly the same way anybody else is treated for breaking the law. There are also going to be a pile of rules to follow, when they break those rules they get to suffer the consequences for their action no more skating on that either.

Once they understand that they are no longer able to get away with all the crap they have been getting away with they will either change their ways or leave the service. There should be no other choices. If this is not done then all the other efforts will be for exactly NOTHING! If only this much gets done I suspect it will seriously change police behavior. Some will try to continue and, when they are found out, they get to go away - one way or another.

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#326591 - 06/13/20 09:30 PM Re: Defund the Police [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10126
Loc: North San Diego County
We probably them to all wear tamper-proof always-on body cams, that get reviewed every day after their shifts by AI. Then checked by humans if the AI spots anything hinky. That way they know if they do something illegal, they will get caught.

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#326616 - 06/14/20 05:49 PM Re: Defund the Police [Re: pondering_it_all]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3451
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
That is one solution. How about making sure that they cameras are turned on as long as they are on the job. I am not sure about watching every one of the video, maybe ai can do it, I have no idea.

I have, however, changed my mind on something. I think that the militarization needs to be done with. I now believe that the police actually believe that they are soldiers fighting the enemy. As such killing is just part of the job and everybody not in the police are the enemy and the enemy is always doing criminal things. This, I think, explains much...

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#326617 - 06/14/20 08:17 PM Re: Defund the Police [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10126
Loc: North San Diego County
Sure, I meant always-on cameras that were part of the uniform. Maybe built into the badge. I didn't mean we should watch them 24/7. Just when they are on duty. They don't wear their badge into the shower.

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#326630 - 06/15/20 06:14 PM Re: Defund the Police [Re: pondering_it_all]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3451
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Yah, we still have agreement. The cameras should also be smart enough so that if there is wifi available then it sends the video to the cloud so nothing is 'lost'.

Its kinda like the cameras of london. Everybody was terribly concerned that it could be view by anybody. Turns out that was not true. The only time anybody takes a look is when something bad happened that might also be a video. I suspect the same will be true of police camera videos. Nobody gets to look unless a crime, or bad behavior, is probable.

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#326637 - 06/15/20 10:30 PM Re: Defund the Police [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10126
Loc: North San Diego County
That's why I said have AI screen it first. Almost everything a beat cop does is obviously not of interest. I imagine human reviewers would only be sent a few minutes out of every day. So they wouldn't need a huge number of reviewers.

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#326649 - 06/16/20 05:37 PM Re: Defund the Police [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3451
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Who knows? Perhaps the ai is smart enough to notice certain things that get flagged to watch a bit more closely. AI gets better and better everyday and many of them working with it also seem to be getting more and more nervous.

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#326886 - 06/23/20 06:43 PM Re: Defund the Police [Re: jgw]
perotista Online   content
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 716
Here's some interesting polling numbers.

"64% Worry About Cop Shortage and Public Safety; Blacks Worry Most"

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_...tm_medium=email
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It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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