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#326670 - 06/17/20 05:03 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: pondering_it_all]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3443
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
All I know is that there are a LOT of folks working on all this stuff. Its really pretty interesting. Our dear leader is absolutely convinced that cures and vaccines are just around the corner and we just gotta hold our breaths and ignore Covid-19 and its just going to go away.

that meanness aside I take some comfort that all those folks are working very hard to save me when I get infected (I fully expect that to happen and the more everybody ignores it the more I become concerned).

I heard that about sars and the flu last night. Covid-19 seems to be brand new and they learn more, day by day. We are not even sure if one can get covid-19 again, if somebody who has had it can still spread it, who is most likely to die from the infection, etc. Pretty basic stuff I think.

They continue to talk about the flu and Covid-19 together in the next round. Now THAT might get even more interesting?

I defer to you for the specifics - waaaay past my pay grade! <g>

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#326675 - 06/17/20 06:18 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43103
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

A cheap steroid is the first drug shown to reduce death in COVID-19 patients

Quote:
After months of dire news about the spread of the novel coronavirus and a mounting global death toll, a glimmer of hope arrived today: Researchers announced that dexamethasone, a cheap, widely available corticosteroid, significantly reduced deaths of severely sick COVID-19 patients in a major clinical trial. Although full trial data have not yet been released, several outside commentators hailed the result as a “breakthrough.”

“These are really surprising, but really very convincing results,” says Martin Landray of the University of Oxford, one of the principal investigators of the Recovery trial in the United Kingdom that evaluated the steroid. If they hold up, adds Devi Sridhar, an expert on global public health at the University of Edinburgh, they could be a game-changer for critical patients, as the drugs are accessible even in lower-income countries.

- Science Mag.com
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#326677 - 06/17/20 09:16 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10113
Loc: North San Diego County
Actually, the retired pathologist at Peak Prosperity made an interesting point about the steroid paper: He said steroid use has been in the MATH+ protocol from East Virginia Medical School for months and they have been using it for a long time in France and Spain, and that the reported mortality of 41% for ventilated patients without the drug was WAY worse than current rates. Either this is very old data, or they are doing something wrong in their treatments.

More likely, this simply represents the sluggish response of the random drug trial system to a fast moving pandemic. Yes, random assigned double-blind trials are the best evidence in science today. But when some hospital's mortality rate drops from 41% down to 10%, maybe your hospital should try whatever they are doing. The random blind study can confirm that was the right move later.

He also reported on a small trial of Pepcid (or the generic). N was just around 100, so it's hard to draw any conclusion, but out of all the people who took it almost everybody said they recovered quickly and completely. It's at the "somebody should do a real random study with a lot of people" stage now. But once again, it's something that's not going to harm anyone or cost a lot, so why not try it.

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#326678 - 06/17/20 09:37 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10113
Loc: North San Diego County
I might just be paranoid, but I doubt it. I think our government has been trying to implement Trump's "just let everybody catch it" policy right from the start. First they lie about masks "because we wanted healthcare workers to get them", even though homemade cloth masks work fine to keep the spread rate low. Then they seem to consistently fail to test hydroxychloroquine with zinc as an early treatment. They say "take out food is safe" when it is only safe if nobody at the restaurant is shedding virus. Then they open up lockdowns without doing the most basic "here's what you have to do" tutorials on masks, distancing, hand washing, safe food shopping, etc. And top it off with Trump and Republicans convincing the stupidest among us not to wear masks.

This sounds like a policy of sacrificing all the old or sick to get to herd immunity. The obvious problem with that is that it requires a huge number of dead and permanently disabled people to get there. Reports from recovered people are not good: Many of them are saying they still have health problems months later. Some of this is going to be permanent. And of course, dying is permanent, too.

I wonder if this has an underlying motive of lowering the number of people collecting Social Security and Medicare. I've also heard Trump's niece has some pretty scathing things to say about Trump's relationship with his old and sick father.

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#326685 - 06/18/20 10:04 AM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10113
Loc: North San Diego County
I've been looking at some stuff on the MATH+ protocol and hospitals that are following it are getting incredibly low mortality rates. This is a protocol using methylprednisolone IV, ascorbic acid IV, thiamine, and heparin, plus Vitamin D, zinc, meletonin, pepcid, etc. Started within 6 hours of ER presentation. These patients have been sick at home for days and finally had enough breathing difficulty to go to the hospital, so they will probably be admitted and some percentage would go on to die. That UK steroid paper reported mortality of 41% for ventilated patients.

But the doctors using MATH+ are reporting under 2% mortality and they were 80 years old+ with co-morbidities. I think a lot of people are going to die needlessly if more hospitals continue to ignore this protocol.

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#326691 - 06/18/20 04:56 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: pondering_it_all]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3443
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I saw a report, last night. The doctor said that this drug was dangerous when not in the hands of a doctor and is only used on patients in dire straights. This confused as I thought I also heard that it should be given if you are sick enough to be in the hospital.

Kinda sounds kinda like a crap shoot.

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#326700 - 06/18/20 07:09 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10113
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
this drug

I'm not sure which drug you mean. MATHS is meant to be an in-hospital protocol using cheap, available, and approved drugs. EVMS has different protocols for prophylaxis and home care.

The "dire straights" concept of the FDA approving drugs for patients who are dying has actually killed a lot of Covid-19 patients: Especially for antivirals, that might stop viral replication very early but have no effect (and possibly do harm) to patients in the later autoimmune phase of the disease.

I saw a video in which a doctor admitted they were only giving remdesivir to those dying patients because they had a very limited supply. So they reserve the antiviral drug for patients who may not even have much virus any more and instead are dying from their own immune system's cytokine storm! Sounds like a waste of time and scarce drug to me.

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#326705 - 06/18/20 10:20 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: pondering_it_all]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3443
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
dexamethazone was the drug I was referring to (apologies, should have told you).

Here are my finds for treatments have found today:
https://outline.com/www.washingtonpost.c...ent-study-says/
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/featured...ian-scientists/

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#326739 - 06/19/20 08:49 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10113
Loc: North San Diego County
Dexamethazone: Prescription only, but it does not have to be used only with medical supervision in a hospital. It is prescribed in pill form for daily uses against autoimmune inflammatory problem like RA. It should be managed by your Primary Care doctor or rheumatologist on an ongoing basis, and patients have to be careful to keep taking their medication. To get off it, you have to taper down gradually so your adrenal glands can start making your own steroids.

I think doctors on TV are being very protective of their right to manage health care and drug use, so we don't have a lot of DIY aquarium cleaner deaths. Remember, half the population has an IQ under 100.

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#327216 - 07/10/20 06:53 PM Re: covid-19 cure [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3443
Loc: Port Angeles, WA

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