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#327682 - 07/29/20 08:31 PM Re: Medications that might help against SARS-CoV-2 [Re: pondering_it_all]
rporter314 Online   content
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Registered: 03/18/03
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I guess Merrick and Zelenko believe almost all medical scientists are involved in a conspiracy against HCQ. What else would explain why study after study result in insignificant efficacy?

It turns out there is a group of conservatives who believe the medical profession as a whole are conspiring to keep people sick instead of curing them. Why else do they treat symptoms and not cure the disease???
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#327683 - 07/29/20 10:02 PM Re: Medications that might help against SARS-CoV-2 [Re: logtroll]
Irked Offline
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Registered: 12/14/05
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Love the vid, Rick.
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#327684 - 07/29/20 10:04 PM Re: Medications that might help against SARS-CoV-2 [Re: GreatNewsTonight]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Hey, I'm all for science, having worked in medical research myself. But as far as I can tell, all the published papers have show so far is that HCQ given late doesn't work (because Covid-19 is really an autoimmune disease at that stage), given early without zinc doesn't work (because zinc is the thing that stops viral replication, HCQ is just the vehicle), it's very dangerous according to a retracted Lancet paper using fake data, and worse. The one study in which they said they had no results of significance, had everything self-reported and very few cases of actual Covid-19, so it doesn't tell us anything. There have been a few retrospective studies in which HCQ + zinc was given at the first sign of exposure or symptom, and it looked like it cut the mortality in half. Many doctors in many countries have reported using it with a lot of success in their own practice.

That's the kind of evidence that leads to full random blind trials. Unfortunately, those trials did not test the hypothesis that early HCQ (in a normal dose) plus zinc lowered mortality. Instead we got absolute crap like the Brazilian study that gave everybody a twenty-fold overdose and had to be aborted because it was killing people.

Notice scientists say there is no evidence HCQ is efficacious. That's right, there is none because the way they tried to use it does not work. Even Trump knew it had to be given early with zinc, and he's one of the dumbest people around. Show me a random blind trial where it's given early with zinc, and I'll be the first to say it doesn't work.

Meanwhile, Dr. Stella Immanuel is a wackjob and should not have a medical license.

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#327686 - 07/30/20 12:12 AM Re: Medications that might help against SARS-CoV-2 [Re: GreatNewsTonight]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Looks like Tocilizumab doesn't help Covid-19 patients, although a lot of people are paying a lot of money for it. Some random blind clinical trials have failed to show any benefit. It does work against a cytokine storm caused by some other diseases, as an interleukin-6 monoclonal antibody. But apparently, not Covid-19. The manufacturer makes no claims for it against Covid-19. (TrialSiteNews)

There are other interleukins that contribute to cytokine storm, so specifically knocking out IL-6 may not make any difference. (my opinion)

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#327688 - 07/30/20 03:44 AM Re: Medications that might help against SARS-CoV-2 [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43281
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Meanwhile, Dr. Stella Immanuel is a wackjob and should not have a medical license.

Two things to ponder since 2016:

1. Any dumbass can be President
2. Should the bar be that low?

Hmm
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#327689 - 07/30/20 03:44 AM Re: Medications that might help against SARS-CoV-2 [Re: Irked]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
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Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Irked
Love the vid, Rick.

Loggy actually posted the video. smile
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#327690 - 07/30/20 04:23 AM Re: Medications that might help against SARS-CoV-2 [Re: pondering_it_all]
rporter314 Online   content
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Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7264
Loc: Highlands, Tx
So you're saying Dr Fauci is too stupid to comprehend clinical trials? or are you saying he is in Big Pharma's pocket. I mean, if your belief is the trials and anecdotal evidence is more valid than what Dr Fauci is seeing, then there can be no other conclusion than the above.

So why is Dr Fauci the director of Infectious etc? Is he a part of the swamp?
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

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#327691 - 07/30/20 04:30 AM Re: Medications that might help against SARS-CoV-2 [Re: pdx rick]
Irked Offline
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Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 3559
Loc: Somewhere out in left field
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: Irked
Love the vid, Rick.

Loggy actually posted the video. smile


Thanks, Rick!

Sorry about that, logtroll. blush
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How eager they are to be slaves - Tiberius Caesar

Coulda tripped out easy, but I've changed my ways - Donovan

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#327695 - 07/30/20 06:54 PM Re: Medications that might help against SARS-CoV-2 [Re: Irked]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10331
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Originally Posted By: Irked
Sorry about that, logtroll. blush

Never herd of such a thing... I am cowed... udderly devastated... think I'll hide... too much at steak... my feelings are hamburger... am I milking it too much?
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To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
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#327696 - 07/30/20 08:37 PM Re: Medications that might help against SARS-CoV-2 [Re: rporter314]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10351
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
So you're saying Dr Fauci is too stupid to comprehend clinical trials?


No, not at all. Dr. Fauci does not design or run clinical trials. He's told the truth, as known at the time he makes a statement. (With the possible exception of the "masks are useless" fiasco. But even then, I bet he said "Masks don't protect you." Which is fairly true, but fails to mention that they protect everybody else from you if you are infected. But that is forgivable because we could just maintain isolation, but health care workers really needed the N95 masks to do their jobs.

Look at what Dr. Fauchi has said: "There is no proof HCQ is effective." That's true, if you consider proof to be p<=0.5 in a random double-blind clinical trial. Which most researchers consider to be actual proof, though there is a 5% or less chance of that result occurring by chance.

What he has NOT said is: "There is proof that early HCQ in a reasonable dose with zinc, does not work." He is just being conventionally conservative in the spirit of "First of all, do no harm."

But there is something to be said for not being so conservative in light of one person dying each minute in the US from Covid-19. Personally, I think under these circumstances, it would be smarter to look at what various hospitals and doctors are doing and use protocols that are getting good results. For example, the RECOVERY trial in England tried dexamethasone on half their patients and no steroids on the other half. That's a valid proof clinical trial. But it ignores the fact that thousands of patients with clear inflammation markers in their blood received no steroids, even though steroids are the standard of care for inflammation. More than 40% of them died because a standard drug was withheld for the sake of the trial.

But for months, the MATH+ protocol was getting MUCH better results using methylprednisolone (another steroid). And not just 5% better: More like 10 times better.

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