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#321979 - 02/26/20 05:14 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Hamish Howl Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 608
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Anyone but Trump. Sure.

Unfortunately, that doesnít seem to be a winning play.



Not if everyone is "Vote blue as long as it's my personal favorite", no.

But I can only cast my own vote, and deal with my own conscience.
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#321981 - 02/26/20 05:19 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 834
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Anyone but Trump. Sure.

Unfortunately, that doesnít seem to be a winning play.

It wasnít in 2016 when Democrats wanted him as an opponent in the general.
Itís obvious who would beat him now.

Yet here we are, with the party in full freak out mode to stop the guy.

The DNC helped bring you Trump. The DNC is working to keep Trump.






I don't know who would be the best candidate to beat Trump. All of them are in the negative when it comes for favorable/unfavorable ratings as is Trump.

Perhaps the question is, what are the voters looking for? Independents especially as it was Independents that gave Trump the White House. The general election certainly is a lot different than the primaries. Perhaps, like in 2016, most voters aren't happy with the choices being provided. We know for certain the majority aren't happy with Trump. But will they be happy or at least look at Trump being a bit worst than the Democrat, whoever that is?

Answers that can't be had until the Democrats choose a candidate. Then the numbers will tell the story. Was their choice right or wrong?
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#321982 - 02/26/20 05:26 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: perotista]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17277
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Perhaps the question is, what are the voters looking for?


What were they looking for in 2016?

Change.

What are they looking for now?

Change.

What won Obama the election in 2008?

Change.
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#321984 - 02/26/20 06:06 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
Zackly.

Itís the Dem parties job to tell the voters why they canít have reasonable public goods and services but can have drone strikes and tax cuts for the aristocrats.

Good work if you can get it. Pays well for doing nothing for people and demobilizing voters.

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#321987 - 02/26/20 06:44 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
Hamish Howl Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 608
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Zackly.

Itís the Dem parties job to tell the voters why they canít have reasonable public goods and services but can have drone strikes and tax cuts for the aristocrats.

Good work if you can get it. Pays well for doing nothing for people and demobilizing voters.


What's awesome about this entire thing is that I honestly believe you'll be bitterly disappointed if Sanders wins the nomination.
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#322003 - 02/26/20 09:02 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10347
Loc: North San Diego County
I think Sanders WILL win the nomination. Then the big challenge will be to convince the Independents that "change" means deserting Trump. And also that President Bernie will not be able to wreck the economy because a Democratic congress won't ever let that happen.

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#322004 - 02/26/20 09:06 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 834
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
Perhaps the question is, what are the voters looking for?


What were they looking for in 2016?

Change.

What are they looking for now?

Change.

What won Obama the election in 2008?

Change.


I would add anger or disappointment if that works. The recession, continuous wars. Yes, voters were ready for a change, also angry at the Republicans which was first seen in 2006 when the Democrats took back the House and senate.

2016, the voters did change who controlled the house and senate already. I would say 2010 was an anger year for Obama and company not listening to the voters. 2014, so many close elections in which the GOP won 5 of 7. Also the Democrats were defending 21 senators to 15 for the GOP. Also traditional Republican states who had elected Democrats six years earlier went back to their traditional roots, Arkansas, Alaska, Louisiana, Montana, North Carolina, South Dakota, West Virginia.

2020, change maybe. But is it change for change sake or are the voters mad at something, someone? I don't think the voters were mad at Obama or even the Democrats in 2016. Just utterly disappointed in their choices. Two candidate most didn't want.

Are the voters mad at Trump? The Democrats sure are, but what about independents? The ones who gave Trump the white house to begin with? As of today 38% of independents view Trump favorably, 52% unfavorably. When Trump won the independent vote in 2016, independents viewed him 40% favorably, 57% unfavorably. Really no change there. So perhaps it's all about how independents view who the Democrats nominate as to how they will vote. In 2016 Hillary was viewed 27% favorably, 70% unfavorably by independents.

Whoever is the Democratic nominee, I sure think would have better numbers than Hillary. But I've been wrong before.
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#322009 - 02/26/20 09:38 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: perotista]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17277
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I would add anger or disappointment if that works.

Anger and disappointment are certainly things that would make you want to vote for change. Fear is another.

A lot of people are angry, disappointed, and afraid of Trump winning a second term. Some of them are Republicans. Bernie's early lead says there's excitement on the left...excitement...another reason to vote for change.

I just heard that Biden is currently up by 18 points in South Carolina. Apparently the debate broke his way and spooked off some of Bernie's support.

Let's see if Bernie outperforms the polls. I'm betting he will.
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#322010 - 02/26/20 10:02 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Hamish Howl]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17277
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I honestly believe you'll be bitterly disappointed if Sanders wins the nomination.


Is that because you think Trump will handily thump Sanders in the general election? Or because Sanders will win but find no success for his agenda?

I dunno about Chunks but I'm perfectly okay with either of these outcomes.
Just getting a progressive candidate nominated would be a BFD.

Getting one into the White House even bigger.

Expecting actual change might be asking more than the fates are willing to offer. A few small changes would be nice but not completely necessary. Electing Bernie would be a bit like re-arranging the stage before the next act. It's not really about Bernie you know. It's about the rest of us.
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#322013 - 02/26/20 10:09 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
Hamish Howl Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 608
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
I honestly believe you'll be bitterly disappointed if Sanders wins the nomination.


Is that because you think Trump will handily thump Sanders in the general election? Or because Sanders will win but find no success for his agenda?


Neither. I think it's because he's happier explaining why the dems are all assholes than he would be if he got what he wanted.
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