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#326923 - 06/26/20 04:05 AM Re: The Boogaloo Bois [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43281
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

As it has been stated numerous times, it wasn't the "Democrats" by and large joining the "Republicans," it was the conservative Dems who joined the Republicans and they took their racism and bigotry with them. smile
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#326925 - 06/26/20 04:16 AM Re: The Boogaloo Bois [Re: perotista]
pdx rick Offline
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Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: perotista
That sounds nice, but I think it's wrong. I don't know about other states, but most folks who were Democrats in the 1960's here in Georgia remained Democrats into old age and death.

Blue Dog Democrats by chance? Hmm
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#326927 - 06/26/20 04:54 AM Re: The Boogaloo Bois [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10347
Loc: North San Diego County
Back then, the Republican Party was still the Party of Lincoln, and Republicans primarily represented Northern industrialists. Northern Industry is the main reason the North won the Civil War. Hard to find a more hated combination in the South. Democrats were populists, representing farmers and working men.

As the young were added to the voting roles, that old difference started to change. The final straw was LBJ's Civil Rights Act and Nixon's Southern Strategy. The Republican Party's connection to the rich was downplayed (although still ever-present) and the racial divide used to drive racists into the Republican Party. Not every White person in the South was racist by any means (at least not for those times), but there were enough.

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#326932 - 06/26/20 12:36 PM Re: The Boogaloo Bois [Re: pdx rick]
perotista Offline
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Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 834
Back in my younger days, 1950's, 60's, 70's, we never heard of the blue dog Democrats. Now most folks were yeller dog Democrats derived from the notion that they'd vote for an old yeller dog before they'd vote for a Republican. Blue Dog Democrats is something I never heard of until 2010 when the media tossed that phrase out to denote most of the 63 House Democrats who lost.

I'd like to present a chart from Pew Research on party affiliation to show the Democrats didn't really lose anyone in the 60's and 70's to the GOP, conservative or otherwise.

You can see those who identified or affiliated with the Democratic Party average roughly 45% of the electorate from 1942-1984. With its normal ups and downs. The Republicans chugged along averaging roughly 25% during that time period. 1984 seems to be the turning point when the Democrats dropped to an average of 35% thru 2008. 1984 just happen to be the year of the Reagan landslide where he won 49 states and beat Mondale 59-40% in the popular vote. The nation as a whole had a huge realignment political wise during Reagan which in my opinion carried through to and until Obama as even Bill Clinton governed fairly conservative.

https://www.people-press.org/interactives/party-id-trend/

The big move these days is to independents, static from 2000-06 at 30%, independents have risen from 30% in 06 up to 40% today. Both parties have lost folks to the independent ranks. As of 4 Jun 2020 Gallup puts party affiliation at 31% Democrat, 25% Republican, 40% Independent. So the GOP is back to where they were pre-Reagan while the Democrats have dropped 15 points from the pre-Reagan era. Independents are the big winners.

Over the years there has been three huge realignments in voting habits, 1 the Northeast from Republican to Democrat, 2 the west coast from Republican to Democrats and 3 the south from Democrat to Republican. I should add a fourth, some state surrounding the Great Lakes, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin and Minnesota from Republican to Democrat. The Plain and Mountain states have remained Republican for the most part.

I think the numbers prove that the old yeller dog, conservative democrats of the 1960's and 70's remained Democrats for the rest of their lives. It was their off spring that changed and became Republicans. It wasn't until 1984 that the south went entirely Republican, but then again with the exception of Minnesota, the entire country, 49 states went Republican. Bill Clinton carried most of the south in 1992 with the exception of Alabama, Mississippi, North and South Carolina. So the shift has been more recent than in the 1960's and 70's.
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It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#326934 - 06/26/20 12:59 PM Re: The Boogaloo Bois [Re: pondering_it_all]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 834
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Back then, the Republican Party was still the Party of Lincoln, and Republicans primarily represented Northern industrialists. Northern Industry is the main reason the North won the Civil War. Hard to find a more hated combination in the South. Democrats were populists, representing farmers and working men.

As the young were added to the voting roles, that old difference started to change. The final straw was LBJ's Civil Rights Act and Nixon's Southern Strategy. The Republican Party's connection to the rich was downplayed (although still ever-present) and the racial divide used to drive racists into the Republican Party. Not every White person in the South was racist by any means (at least not for those times), but there were enough.

I think you're giving those two, the Civil Rights Act and Nixon's southern strategy too much credit. Sure the south went for Nixon in 1972 as did almost every other state in the country with the lone exception of Massachusetts. So are you telling us the reason Nixon carried 49 states was because of his southern strategy and the 1964 civil rights act?

The whole south went Democratic in 1976, then Republican in 1980 and 84. But again so too did the entire rest of the country with the exception of Georgia, Maryland, West Virginia and Minnesota in 1980 and just one state in 1984 Minnesota. If what you say is true, then it infected most of the entire country, not just the south.

No I think the change was much more gradual in the south. Until the 1990's the south was still sending Democratic House members and senators to Washington and most states still had democratic state legislatures and governors.

The real change from Democratic to Republican took place in 1994/96 and 2002. That 30 years after the civil rights bill and the start of Nixon's southern strategy. This is if one is looking at the big picture and the numbers available.

I will never deny that the south was one racist region back during the 50's and 60's, that's very true. But the change in stripes from blue to red didn't occur then, it was a slow gradual change over a 30 year period, perhaps closer to 40 for some states. . Much like the northeast and west coast under went a slow gradual change from Republican to democrat.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#326943 - 06/26/20 08:42 PM Re: The Boogaloo Bois [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10347
Loc: North San Diego County
I think a lot of that was momentum: The South still had racist Democrats they could vote for in local elections, who had been their Representatives and Senators for a long time. A lot of them actually had a family connection, since their fathers had been in their office before them. They didn't suddenly embrace civil rights, either. 30 or 40 years later, they were either dead or retired.

Reagan was a fluke, like Trump. He won because of his media career and huge name recognition, not his political history. Both of them were actually Democrats before they turned Republican to run for office. Reagan was actually a union President!

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#326946 - 06/26/20 11:08 PM Re: The Boogaloo Bois [Re: pondering_it_all]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 834
Big difference between the two. Reagan switched parties only once, Trump has done so 7 times. Reagan was a successful governor of California for two terms, 8 years. Trump had no political experience whatsoever. He didn't even play the part of a president on TV.

Reagan won because Carter was seen as inept, the Misery index, the Iran Hostage situation and more. Reagan carried 44 states and beat Carter in the popular vote 51-41 with Anderson garnering 7% of the vote. Trump received but 46% of the popular vote along with carrying 30 states. Reagan went on to win reelection by a landslide winning 49 states and defeating Mondale 59-40% in the popular vote. Trump could very well be on the receiving end of a Biden landslide, time will tell. But it's possible. No, Reagan was no fluke. Trump, yes, Reagan no. Reagan was exactly what a majority of Americans wanted during that time period. Trump, a majority of Americans didn't want him. But he was very lucky to face Hillary Clinton as a majority of Americans didn't want her also.

You're correct, most of the 1960's southern democrats didn't embrace civil rights, but they didn't jump to the Republican Party either. Most continued on being loyal Democrats until retirement or death. The south continued to be loyal to the Democratic Party until the time period between 1994-2002. By then the old yeller dog Democrats were retired or dead.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#326953 - 06/27/20 06:36 AM Re: The Boogaloo Bois [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43281
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

Yellow Dog and Blue Dog Dems explained:

Quote:
For almost a century, a Democratic Party largely dominated by white conservatives prevailed in almost all statewide elections...
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#326954 - 06/27/20 06:39 AM Re: The Boogaloo Bois [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43281
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


Southern Strategy explained:

Quote:
As the civil rights movement and dismantling of Jim Crow laws in the 1950s and 1960s visibly deepened existing racial tensions in much of the Southern United States, Republican politicians such as presidential candidate Richard Nixon and Senator Barry Goldwater developed strategies that successfully contributed to the political realignment of many white, conservative voters in the South who had traditionally supported the Democratic Party rather than the Republican Party. It also helped to push the Republican Party much more to the right.[4]

The "Southern Strategy" refers primarily to "top down" narratives of the political realignment of the South which suggest that Republican leaders consciously appealed to many white Southerners' racial grievances in order to gain their support
...
smile Exactly what I wrote.

I get that righwingers want to hide and deflect from their history past and present, but you can't. You can run, but you can't hide - because I won't let you. laugh
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#326956 - 06/27/20 07:34 AM Re: The Boogaloo Bois [Re: perotista]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10347
Loc: North San Diego County
Actually, Reagan was a horrible governor. He had no previous government office experience at the time he first ran, much like Trump, and he made some major blunders as a result. There are still large groups in California who hate him, like teachers and state employees.

His people committed crimes by negotiating with the Iranians to not release their hostages until Reagan won and took office. This was essentially treason. As President, he mostly went on TV and gave nice speeches that his followers enjoyed, and left everything else to Cheney. He made decisions with the help of psychics, and then by his second term he was pretty far into senility. After he got shot, Nancy filled his role (fairly competently) as again Cheney actually ran the Executive Branch. He may have been what the majority of voters thought they wanted, but he was way less intelligent or competent than Carter, the Naval nuclear engineer.

His administration was marked by multiple scandals, resulting in the investigation, indictment, or conviction of over 138 administration officials, the largest number for any U.S. president.

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