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#327194 - 07/09/20 05:26 PM Re: What is the purpose of Capitalism? [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
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Quote:
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Flori-duh again?!? #BecauseFlorida smile
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#327203 - 07/09/20 11:23 PM Re: What is the purpose of Capitalism? [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
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Loc: One of the Mexicos
This whole Capitalism thing is delusional. It's not an economic system in reality, it's a fragment of a very complex system of human interactions that only applies to things that can be bought and sold.

The definition of "capital" is essentially "money", though it can apply to other tangible assets. And money is a tool that works pretty well (unless unethical corruptors are in the mix) for facilitating the exchange of goods and services during indirect and/or asymmetric transactions. For instance, if I'm a shoemaker and I want to buy some bread, but the baker doesn't want any shoes at the moment, money is a handy surrogate that the baker can accept and use to pay the rent, or buy some wheat, or whatever. Money is more adaptable for transactions than barter is.

But to reduce all values to money is mindless. That is what is wrong with Capitalism as an "economic system", and viewing markets as some kind of wise guiding hand. It's like asking a shovel for advice.
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#327204 - 07/10/20 12:38 AM Re: What is the purpose of Capitalism? [Re: logtroll]
pondering_it_all Offline
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There is actually such a thing as non-monetary capital. For example, loyalty, social position, elected leadership, hereditary leadership, moral leadership, and so on may serve the place now occupied mostly by money: Any of these things can supply the ability to get something larger than one man's labor accomplished.

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#327356 - 07/15/20 01:16 PM Re: What is the purpose of Capitalism? [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
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Excellent article on the historical relationship between Socialism and Capitalism

Quote:
In America, socialism is hardly something alien, or foreign — it’s a tool to attract, support, and subsidize capitalism, and so, perfectly logically, when capitalism goes broke, Americans quickly turn off the tap of socialism, too. So the very communities that once subsidized capitalism with generous public investment are often abandoned and forgotten. Flint. Scranton. The Rust Belt — all these were once places where socialism was used to prop up capitalism, but when capitalism went broke, or went offshore, people were abandoned by both socialism and capitalism.
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#327358 - 07/15/20 05:49 PM Re: What is the purpose of Capitalism? [Re: logtroll]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17064
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No...no....and no. Uh...just no.

This authors' concept of socialism seems to be that anything the government does is socialism...that aint the case at all.
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#327365 - 07/15/20 09:39 PM Re: What is the purpose of Capitalism? [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10285
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Governmentalism?

Whatever it is, it ain't Capitalism.
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To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
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#327370 - 07/15/20 11:57 PM Re: What is the purpose of Capitalism? [Re: logtroll]
Irked Offline
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Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 3531
Loc: Somewhere out in left field
However capitalism decides to distribute a portion of their profits to the proles supplying the human capital side of the equation is a form of socialism. Being forward thinking, they normally choose to distribute a huge chunk to purposely cumbersome entities called governments where they can use their control to direct those funds in a way that best promotes their bottom line.

Any interference in this equation, like majority rule, are fiercely suppressed.
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#327372 - 07/16/20 02:31 AM Re: What is the purpose of Capitalism? [Re: logtroll]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17064
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Governmentalism?


Let's just call a spade a spade here and label it fascism.

Seems like today might be Woody's birthday...

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#327373 - 07/16/20 03:11 AM Re: What is the purpose of Capitalism? [Re: Irked]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17064
Loc: Florida
Quote:
However capitalism decides to distribute a portion of their profits to the proles supplying the human capital side of the equation is a form of socialism. Being forward thinking, they normally choose to distribute a huge chunk to purposely cumbersome entities called governments where they can use their control to direct those funds in a way that best promotes their bottom line.


That's pretty profound.
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#327466 - 07/19/20 04:55 PM Re: What is the purpose of Capitalism? [Re: logtroll]
Irked Offline
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Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 3531
Loc: Somewhere out in left field
This seems appropriate to post here.

Originally Posted By: Paul Krugman
no rational discussion of economics says that free markets, left to themselves, can solve the problem of “externalities”

Yet many conservatives seem unable or unwilling to grasp this simple point. And they seem equally unwilling to grasp a related point — that there are some things that must be supplied through public policy rather than individual initiative.


NYT
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