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#327938 - 08/13/20 12:35 AM Re: RoundTable for Summer 2020 [Re: pondering_it_all]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 840
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Calling Biden and Harris "socialists" and "left-wing extremists" is hilarious. They are both about as centrist as you can get. But that is what the GOP playbook picked, back when an actual socialist was running. Does it matter to their base? I guess not, since Trump lying about stuff is applauded as strategy.

But as perotista would put it: How does that play with the Independents?

Funny that Trump and Ivanka both gave Harris campaign contributions in the recent past. Now if journalists can just dig up some endorsements they gave her, that would be great.

As of Oct 2016, you have it.

https://ballotpedia.org/History_of_Donald_Trump%27s_political_donations

As for independents on Harris, you'll have to give it a week or two. Although I think Harris was a relative safe pick. Now how Biden perceived ideology is perceived by independents, 16% very liberal, 20% liberal, 25% moderate, 5% conservative, 3% very conservative, 30% Not sure. Question 90

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/horeovzt7u/econTabReport.pdf

Keep in mind, for the most part, independents are somewhere in-between the ideology of both major parties. Although some are way to the left of the Democratic Party and some way to the right of the GOP. This would explain some independents view Biden as conservative or very conservative especially if they're way left of the Democratic Party.

Myself, I always viewed Biden as a Democratic Moderate, which is different from a Republican Moderate.
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#327940 - 08/13/20 01:18 AM Re: RoundTable for Summer 2020 [Re: perotista]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17280
Loc: Florida
20% of those independents polled are right. Biden is a liberal.

The difference between moderates and liberals is so slight that it's more semantics than anything else. They are centrists, you don't really begin to lean left until you call yourself a progressive and I don't think Biden has a progressive bone in his body.
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#327943 - 08/13/20 03:10 PM Re: RoundTable for Summer 2020 [Re: Greger]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 840
Originally Posted By: Greger
20% of those independents polled are right. Biden is a liberal.

The difference between moderates and liberals is so slight that it's more semantics than anything else. They are centrists, you don't really begin to lean left until you call yourself a progressive and I don't think Biden has a progressive bone in his body.

You may be right. I'd like to add that I really don't like the term independents or centrist, I prefer swing voters. Moderates, so, so. I say this because quite a lot of those we classify as independents, moderates, centrist really aren't.

Quite a lot of swing voters support the Democrats on some issues and support Republicans on others. It isn't that they are always in the middle. They have their issues with very strong views on them. But which party they support at the time depends on the issue or how hot a issue is.

One can be pro-choice and pro-second amendment at the same time. Quite a lot of retired Vets where I live are exactly that which includes me. I do think moderate, centrist, etc. are words that don't apply to quite a lot of swing voters, independents if you must, they just don't march lock step with either major party. This is one reason that there will never be a political party to represent independents as their views are so diverse depending on the issue at hand.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#327945 - 08/13/20 04:57 PM Re: RoundTable for Summer 2020 [Re: perotista]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17429
Poll: Voters approve Harris VP pick, Biden gets image bounce
Quote:
The early reviews are in for Joe Biden’s choice of Kamala Harris as his running mate, and it’s a hit with most voters — including key groups the Biden campaign hopes will solidify its lead over President Donald Trump.

A slim majority of voters, 53 percent, approve of Biden picking the California senator to join the Democratic ticket, according to a POLITICO/Morning Consult flash poll conducted on Wednesday, the day after the selection was announced. That’s significantly greater than the 29 percent who disapprove of Harris as Democrats’ vice presidential candidate.

Moreover, the pick earns high marks from key constituencies: Democrats (84 percent) overwhelmingly approve of Harris’ selection, as do Black voters (79 percent). Majorities of voters under age 35 (56 percent), 35-44 (61 percent) and 65 and older (55 percent) approve of Biden’s choice; only among voters aged 45-64 does the pick not earn majority support.

A plurality of independents, 44 percent, approve of Biden’s choice, greater than the 27 percent who disapprove. But more than 1 in 4 independents, 28 percent, have no opinion.

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#327946 - 08/13/20 05:09 PM Re: RoundTable for Summer 2020 [Re: Greger]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17429
And the smear campaign begins... with echoes of "Kenya" - I guess "Kamala" sounds too much like "Obama".

Some Questions for Kamala Harris About Eligibility | Opinion (Newsweek). I'm not going to quote at length, but the opinion by Professor John C. Eastman is, IMHO, based upon a crank interpretation of the 14th Amendment.
Quote:
The language of Article II is that one must be a natural-born citizen. The original Constitution did not define citizenship, but the 14th Amendment does—and it provides that "all persons born...in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens." Those who claim that birth alone is sufficient overlook the second phrase. The person must also be "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States, and that meant subject to the complete jurisdiction, not merely a partial jurisdiction such as that which applies to anyone temporarily sojourning in the United States (whether lawfully or unlawfully). Such was the view of those who authored the 14th Amendment's Citizenship Clause; of the Supreme Court of the United States in the 1872 Slaughter-House Cases and the 1884 case of Elk v. Wilkins; of Thomas Cooley, the leading constitutional treatise writer of the day; and of the State Department, which, in the 1880s, issued directives to U.S. embassies to that effect.
To my knowledge no court has ever interpreted the Constitution as Professor Eastman asserts, and for good reason. It's nonsense.

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#327947 - 08/13/20 05:10 PM Re: RoundTable for Summer 2020 [Re: Greger]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 840
I've never put much stock in these flash or overnight polls. I prefer to wait a week or two to give the choice a chance to sink in. Or go with polls that ask the same question several weeks and months in a row. This provides a trend.

But even without any polls, my political gut says Harris is a good choice. First is she does no harm. Not like a Palin or a Quayle. I also don't think she helps Biden much either. But few ever vote for the VP slot. It is almost exclusive the top spot.

This year it may be a bit different because of Biden's age. That remains to be seen. There were three others that could have helped Biden in the midwest, the rust belt, maybe four. If and I say if, this race tightens, Biden may wish he gave them more thought. If it doesn't, they you'll know Old Joe made the right choice.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#327949 - 08/13/20 05:26 PM Re: RoundTable for Summer 2020 [Re: perotista]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17429
Originally Posted By: perotista
I've never put much stock in these flash or overnight polls. I prefer to wait a week or two to give the choice a chance to sink in. Or go with polls that ask the same question several weeks and months in a row. This provides a trend.

But even without any polls, my political gut says Harris is a good choice. First is she does no harm. Not like a Palin or a Quayle. I also don't think she helps Biden much either. But few ever vote for the VP slot. It is almost exclusive the top spot.

This year it may be a bit different because of Biden's age. That remains to be seen. There were three others that could have helped Biden in the midwest, the rust belt, maybe four. If and I say if, this race tightens, Biden may wish he gave them more thought. If it doesn't, they you'll know Old Joe made the right choice.
I agree entirely with your analysis. What I think will be most interesting to watch is where Harris' presence may have an impact on the margins - Florida, Pennsylvania, Georgia - even Arizona. Another factor that may have had an impact, I think, is that her California Senate seat will almost certainly remain in Democratic hands, and control of the Senate may be as important.
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#327952 - 08/13/20 06:03 PM Re: RoundTable for Summer 2020 [Re: Greger]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17429

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#327953 - 08/13/20 06:08 PM Re: RoundTable for Summer 2020 [Re: Greger]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10351
Loc: North San Diego County
I think a lot of people would have to die for her seat NOT to go to a Democrat.

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#327957 - 08/13/20 07:00 PM Re: RoundTable for Summer 2020 [Re: NW Ponderer]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 840
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Originally Posted By: perotista
I've never put much stock in these flash or overnight polls. I prefer to wait a week or two to give the choice a chance to sink in. Or go with polls that ask the same question several weeks and months in a row. This provides a trend.

But even without any polls, my political gut says Harris is a good choice. First is she does no harm. Not like a Palin or a Quayle. I also don't think she helps Biden much either. But few ever vote for the VP slot. It is almost exclusive the top spot.

This year it may be a bit different because of Biden's age. That remains to be seen. There were three others that could have helped Biden in the midwest, the rust belt, maybe four. If and I say if, this race tightens, Biden may wish he gave them more thought. If it doesn't, they you'll know Old Joe made the right choice.
I agree entirely with your analysis. What I think will be most interesting to watch is where Harris' presence may have an impact on the margins - Florida, Pennsylvania, Georgia - even Arizona. Another factor that may have had an impact, I think, is that her California Senate seat will almost certainly remain in Democratic hands, and control of the Senate may be as important.


Georgia could be interesting. My home state has been drifting back to becoming Democratic again over the last 10 or so years. Abrams lost her race for the governorship by a mere 54,000 votes in 2018. But 2018 was a heavy Democratic year.

California has a jungle primary, you'll probably have two democrats running for the seat in the general like the last one they had which Harris won over another Democrat. Biden is up by 5 in Florida, up by 6 in Pennsylvania, up by 7 in Michigan and Wisconsin. Trump and Biden are basically tied in Georgia.

Harris won't hurt Biden in those states, how much help, I'm not sure.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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