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#327998 - 08/15/20 04:24 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: perotista]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43273
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: perotista
...Montana will stay red...

As long as the Governor is Dem and the new Senator is Dem, I'm ok with Montana going for a loser like Trump.

smile
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#328000 - 08/15/20 05:48 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: pdx rick]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 827
Perhaps some bad news for you on Montana. In the governor's race Greg
Gianforte, the Republicans is up by an average of 6 points. Daines the Republican has moved from 4 points behind Bullock on 15 July to 5 points ahead today. Trump has a nine point lead there. Which is really small considering Montana usually goes Republican in presidential races by 15-20 points.

Even so, Montana has a habit of electing Democrats as governors and senators. Kind of weird, but that's Montana. Since 1964 Montana has gone Democratic in a presidential race just once. 1992 for Bill Clinton.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#328003 - 08/15/20 06:52 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: perotista]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10345
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
Pushing a bunch of new programs through in the first two years would be a bad political mistake in my opinion.


I doubt Democrats will have the time or energy to do much but fix all the stuff Trump has broken during their first two years. Maybe in the second half, but Democratic (especially mainstream Democratic) ideas are not all that radical. Maybe we get ACA fixed, Medicare expanded in more states, and a public option. But those only affect the people who need them. It wouldn't be like Medicare For All or giving everybody a minimum income.

I guess "free college" is the other big green idea: But I think that can happen very gradually, through existing programs. What we end up with is reduced tuition at state colleges and universities for students with good GPAs. Rather like what we had in the 1950 - 2000 era.

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#328006 - 08/15/20 07:51 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: perotista]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17271
Loc: Florida
Quote:
This election so far has been all about getting rid of Trump, not electing Biden or Democrats.


Most of the other candidates actually had plans for the country and boldly announced them. Even Harris ran on progressive platform.
Biden never promised anything except that he could beat Trump.

He stole his biggest line from Senator Elizabeth Warren...An economy that works for everyone. He's cherry picked the progressive agenda for talking points without substance.

Americans, including yourself, Pero, are scared of candidates with visions or plans. Scared of leaders who will lead us out of this mess. Scared of candidates who want to give the power back to the people as it was promised in the Constitution.

The only way a new government could impress you was if they did nothing for the first two years in power.

No liveable wage.

No healthcare for the poor.

No relief from oppressive "college loans".

No movement on immigration

No climate change mitigation

No police reformation

No Cuts to military spending

(and read my lips)
NO NEW TAXES

You gonna be a happy man with Biden and Harris! because your gonna get none of that and more!
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#328007 - 08/15/20 08:14 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17271
Loc: Florida
If I thought for one minute that America was going to use the next four years to lick it's wounds and heal from the Trump years I'd be all in.

But the war between the parties will not even slow down.

Two years of inactivity followed by two years of controversy followed by Ivanka VS Kamala....

Perhaps you have a different vision of a future based on maintaining an unsustainable status quo?
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#328009 - 08/15/20 08:39 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 827
We'll see. If the Democrats go down your road, I would wager we have another 2010 in 2022. I don't think you realize how many Americans like living in their comfort zone. That they dislike the unknown. It takes time to educate and convince.

I would estimate that only around a third of America thinks like you. I will add this as an old military guy. You could cut 100 billion out of the military budget and not harm our security, our defense or ability to defend this country one bit. That is if congress stopped using the military as a civilian jobs creator and maintainer. There's been numerous times that the military and the JCS has stated they didn't need this weapon's program, this system, more of these planes, more equipment etc. only to have congress pass those projects anyway. Then they return home and tell the folks in their home district and state about all the civilian jobs they provided and kept.

Have you ever went to a DRMO auction? Stuff the military had sitting in warehouses, never used, brand new usually get auctioned off. Last year I bought 3 lap tops, still in their original box, unopened, but with Windows 7 on them for 46 dollars. 3 brand new, new never used laptops for 46 dollars. I wonder how much the military paid for them and then paid for storage? Heck, we have a company north of Atlanta still making C-130's.

Yeah, come to think of it, I like the status quo. I like knowing what awaits around the corner. I like knowing what to expect and what any new program passed will effect me, good, bad, indifferent. I like knowing. Knowing is my comfort zone. I don't like taking gigantic leaps off into the unknown, totally ignorant on how any of these new programs, legislation etc will affect me and my loved ones. I want time to digest them, not wham, bang, thank you Ma'am forced legislation and programs through for just a third of the nation can be happy.

Give Biden time to start the learning curve. To let America know what to expect. But both of us know that won't happened. yep, another 2010 in 2022 and that's the end of anything and everything else. Just remember, America as a whole, all Americans today dislike the Republican Party a bit more than they dislike the Democratic party. Come 2022, they'll be disliking the Democratic Party more than the Republican Party and will return them to control in the House. Time, education, taking the unknown out of it so most Americans will be comfortable with it. But that's not for you.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#328013 - 08/15/20 10:07 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: perotista]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17271
Loc: Florida
You like the status quo because you, just like me, are living the socialist dream. Government takes care of all our needs and we pretty much lack for nothing.

I enjoy it too! But pull your head out of the sand and take a look around! It's un-sustainable. We can no longer pretend that life is just going to be hunky dory and we never have to address any of the above issues. Climate change is real. Sea level rise is real. Plastic pollution is killing our seas and fisheries. Emissions are changing the atmosphere and warming the planet. There is nowhere in the United States where minimum wage will pay for room and board. Everybody is in debt up to their asses...and that was before the pandemic hit.

All those things can't be implemented at once, but maybe one of them could be...?

Nawp. Not even one of them...Biden's job is going to be filling all the jobs that Trump simply hasn't bothered to fill. He has let entire departments shrivel to nothing because he has no interest in them. He places a crony at the top and let's them decimate the whole thing. Our state department is in shambles and the post office headed that way quickly. The environmental protection agency has become the enemy of the environment...

So for Biden it's all gonna be a bunch of hiring and firing for a long time. Harris should be well equipped to handle most of that, she's a ruthless super-cop.

But that's all at the top executive level. What's going to be happening in the legislative sense after the election and assuming Democrats take over.

With a Democratic senate the house will be able to draft bills and see them through the senate rather than an ignominious death on the Leaders desk.

I suspect the cojones with which they drafted bills they knew would never see the light of day will shrivel and they will not be so bold.

I don't see much on the legislative front because Biden hasn't stood for anything or championed any cause except a partisan victory.

He's a labor unionist in a post union world.
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#328015 - 08/15/20 10:49 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 827
Yeah, I pretty much lack for nothing, but most of that was because of the decisions I made in my life. A lot more right than wrong. Then again it wasn't my decision to get drafted. But once I did I found out being in the army wasn't bad, in fact it was easier than working on the farm during the day and in an old pig iron foundry at night. So I made it a career.

Once the people get out of the whirlpool onto dry land from the antics of Trump, I just don't think they want to be thrown right back into that whirlpool with a ton of new programs. They want a time to dry off first and get to know what it means to be back on solid ground.

Immigration reform would be nice and needed. Coming up with a plan to give those who don't have health insurance, insurance without upending the whole apple cart would be good.

I'm not against many of the things you mentioned. I'm saying be careful or you'll be back on the outside in a heartbeat. If you're going to take folks out of their comfort zone, they better understand why and they better be informed what comes next.

I've seen way too many presidents who's party controlled congress go off and pass things their party's base wanted without informing America as a whole to what lies ahead so all Americans would understand it. It's became a one and done when the first midterm came around.

This happened to Bill Clinton and to Obama. Both took their base priorities, got them passed and both lost congress. People need to be informed so they understand what's coming.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#328016 - 08/16/20 01:22 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: perotista]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43273
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: perotista
If you're going to take folks out of their comfort zone...

Which is mostly older conservative Americans. Turmp had killed 168K of them to date. It'll be different America when Biden takes office thanks to Trump's incompetence. smile
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#328017 - 08/16/20 02:34 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: pdx rick]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17271
Loc: Florida
I'm old and, as socialists go, I'm pretty conservative. If me and a million like me fall over dead it will be no particular loss to the world. Probably a net gain as far as my political agenda is concerned too.

Gen Z will be voting for the first time this year, the oldest of them are about 22...my millenial daughter tells me they're worse than regular socialists....they're f*cking little commies. It warmed my heart to hear such praise of the new generation! And it gives me hope for the future.
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