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#328397 - 08/29/20 05:38 PM Re: There needs to be a ‘real reckoning’ for Trump’s abuses if Biden wins [Re: pdx rick]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3700
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
The ACA and Medicare for all still has individuals paying in for their healthcare. This would also mean that medicaid would be alive and well as well as well as insurance companies. I believe that EVERYBODY pays, with their taxes. Nobody gets off the hook. Everybody on a single payer wins, insurance just goes away. If you are rich you can still hire a doctor (many single payer systems still allow 'private' doctors) but everybody else is covered and EVERYBODY benefits. Again, there are some social enterprises that work; Police, firemen, etc. Same should hold true with healthcare. Remember too, the costs to the nation will decline with single payer as demonstrated by the rest of the developed world (which also has better outcomes).

I know, taxes are not looked on with happiness by virtually everybody. But most pay, without whining about it. If Trump goes there are going to be a LOT of stuff that is going to be needed done from Infrastructure, to wrecked agencies, to really bad judge appointment, to fence mending, to government re-organization (its gotta get done, its been over 75 years since any studies on that one), etc. Its a long list. its why I support Biden, he has experience in management of this kind of stuff and we are going to REALLY need it!

Don't forget, when Trump first ran he said, right out loud, "I am the master of debt!". He had/has a simple plan to deal with it - just don't pay it off! Fake it! His history is very clear on this one and, if he goes, we are going to have to pay the price and its gonna be high. Remember too, after WWII taxes on the very rich were around 90% and the effective rate was about 70% Just to start paying off what we will have is gonna probably be around that. Hell, our system of taxes and good deals is also going to have to be overhauled if its gonna be anywhere near fair. I am not even sure that there is ANYBODY who really even understand our so-called tax code anymore.



Edited by jgw (08/29/20 05:40 PM)

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#328399 - 08/29/20 06:25 PM Re: There needs to be a ‘real reckoning’ for Trump’s abuses if Biden wins [Re: pdx rick]
Ujest Shurly Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 673
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
The first thing to change should be applying FICA tax, Medicare tax, Workmen's Comp tax to all income* for all people, places, things and companies/organizations. Doing so will allow a reduction in those taxes while making SS and Medicare/Medicaid solvent.

*income = you receive something of value for what everwork performed you pay tax on that something of value, such as stocks, bonds, autos, those crazy payments received by hedge fund managers. interest, dividends, collectables, shares, payments made on your behalf made of other people, places, things, companies/organizations etc.


Edited by Ujest Shurly (08/29/20 06:25 PM)
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#328400 - 08/29/20 10:22 PM Re: There needs to be a ‘real reckoning’ for Trump’s abuses if Biden wins [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10493
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
I am not even sure that there is ANYBODY who really even understand our so-called tax code anymore.

Doesn't have to be any one person who understands it all. That's why it's all written down: So people can go to the books and look up those rules that apply to weird situations.

But for almost everybody, the rules are simple, and try to make sure taxation is fair. But life is not simple, and some folks have income situations that wouldn't tax them fairly if we only had a few simple rules. Even the most expert in tax law don't have it all memorized. But they know where to look, and can come up with an applicable algorithm in a short time.

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#328413 - 08/30/20 04:44 PM Re: There needs to be a ‘real reckoning’ for Trump’s abuses if Biden wins [Re: pdx rick]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3700
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Sorry, taxes are for paying the bill, not fixing things social, or punishment, or good deals, or all the rest of it. Its just for paying the bills but, instead, we try and use to to fix stuff that it is simply not designed to do and usually fails. Then there are the huge variety of good deals for rich enterprises. If we are to have a fair bill we should have one that is designed to just pay the bills - NOTHING else! I suspect we would all feel a lot better about taxes if we knew that we were paying for the bills. Otherwise we have what we have now which tries to fix thing with nothing to do with paying the bills, passing out deals to friends, saving corporations and all the rest. I am sure some what this or that but, I betcha, NOBODY wants to have a system that deals with a pile of other stuff which has little to do with paying the bills - which we have right now. Our tax code, depending who is measuring what is claimed to be anywhere from 2,600 to 70,000 pages long! I would prefer a tax on income which sets out the rates and VERY little else.

I am, incidentally, against a pile of stuff that gov does under the guise of dealing with something else. That is lousy management, confuses issues, etc. I think everybody can find that in gov and I betche most will find something different from one another. Taxes is just one example of the mess we have created for ourselves. Unfortunately legislators, on both sides, tend to find homes for stuff instead of dealing with whatever straight up. This is a known problem in gov and hasn't been dealth with since the days of Harry Truman. Its REALLY time to deal with this!

I am also for taxing for specific things. A story. In Washington state, hears ago, the game department was paid for the by the costs of a variety of licenses (fishing, hunting, etc). This paid for the game wardens, hired help, etc. Then the legislators took a look at that one and found that they were actually doing a good job and had even been able to increase their services, ie. they had too much money! The state stole that money and put it into the general fund and then put them in line with everything else for money. Now the game department no longer has enough game wardens, hired help, etc. and nobody who does that stuff is all that happy anymore because they got screwed when the legislature took their money, which they gladly paid, to deal with all the rest.

We have a number of these taxes. Social Security is one, Medicare is supposed to be another but too little is taxed for it. The interesting thing is that gov has, over the years, stole the social security finds while is has to pay for medicare due to not enough being taxed for. I know, Social Security has trust funds, they keep track of what they take, etc. but, still, they should have left it alone!


Edited by jgw (08/30/20 04:56 PM)

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#328416 - 08/30/20 05:36 PM Re: There needs to be a ‘real reckoning’ for Trump’s abuses if Biden wins [Re: logtroll]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 470
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
A recommended book for anyone who actually thinks that any party should set the precedent that, upon gaining power, the first thing you do is turn that state power to imprisoning and abusing those who just engaged in that greatest and most beautifully poignant of historical rarities - the peaceful transfer of power.

For anyone who actually thinks that...

But let's consider the context. Has there ever been a president who so blatantly violates laws and goes out of his way to feck up the system for no other reason than personal "gain"?


Feel free to check out the Woodrow Wilson administration.

Quote:
If there are no consequences for this Criminal-in-Chief, what precedent does that establish?


The consequence should be losing power, losing in a landslide, and going down as a dark warning story, like Nixon.

If the consequence is to set the precedent that opposing parties immediately turn the power of the state on the very people who just participated in a peaceful transfer of power.....


...then I 100% guarantee that Republicans will do it Right Back to Democrats after the next election, and, increasingly, will see no upside and only risks to actually peacefully transfering power back to Democrats.

That's how you destroy a Republic, if that's what you want to do.
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#328432 - 08/30/20 07:52 PM Re: There needs to be a ‘real reckoning’ for Trump’s abuses if Biden wins [Re: CPWILL]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10493
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
Republicans will do it Right Back to Democrats after the next election


If "it" is prosecuting actual crimes, then I'm all for that. If a Democratic administration did the kind of crimes Trump et al have committed, then I would hope any subsequent Republican OR Democratic administration would see to it that justice was done.

You do realize you are supporting organized crime here as long as the head of the gang is the President?

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#328437 - 08/31/20 12:25 AM Re: There needs to be a ‘real reckoning’ for Trump’s abuses if Biden wins [Re: CPWILL]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10381
Loc: One of the Mexicos
I heard that no one is above the law. I'm not for bogus investigations and harassment, I'm for prosecuting criminals, though. Especially those who commit crimes against the public trust.

The Republicans have a long history of trying to harass, how about them 15 investigations of HC, without ever citing a violated law?

Nice dodge, throwing Woodrow Wilson in there... what point did you hope to make with that squirrel?
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#328440 - 08/31/20 12:43 AM Re: There needs to be a ‘real reckoning’ for Trump’s abuses if Biden wins [Re: CPWILL]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43461
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
...then I 100% guarantee that Republicans will do it Right Back to Democrats after the next election, and, increasingly, will see no upside and only risks to actually peacefully transfering power back to Democrats.

As if Barack Obama pulled any of the shyte Donald Trump is pulling and Donald Trump is the payback. YOU rightwingers would have lost your sanity.

smile
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