Current Topics
Is it too soon to be talking 2020?
by NW Ponderer
0 seconds ago
The new addition to the Supremes
by NW Ponderer
5 minutes 58 seconds ago
The reality of herd immunity
by NW Ponderer
7 minutes 2 seconds ago
Roundtable for Samhain 2020
by NW Ponderer
14 minutes 15 seconds ago
Coronavirus: The Plague of The 21st Century?
by pondering_it_all
Yesterday at 11:05 PM
the Pelosi Stimulus
by jgw
10/19/20 05:37 PM
Senate control during Covid
by rporter314
10/17/20 09:05 PM
At A Time Like This America Truly Needs A Healthy Donald Trump
by pondering_it_all
10/16/20 08:41 AM
The Boogaloo Bois
by jgw
10/15/20 09:44 PM
Trump and Melania tested positive for Covid-19
by logtroll
10/15/20 01:42 AM
yellowstone
by Greger
10/14/20 07:19 PM
RoundTable for Summer 2020
by pdx rick
10/14/20 01:40 AM
Trump HAS Covid!!!!
by rporter314
10/12/20 07:07 PM
the Trump Taxes
by Greger
10/03/20 03:01 AM
Do both sides really do it?
by Greger
10/02/20 07:53 PM
Bob Woodward's book details Trump's chaotic and dysfunctional White House
by pdx rick
10/01/20 05:48 PM
How much do police really cost?
by pondering_it_all
09/30/20 08:35 PM
Civics
by jgw
09/28/20 05:33 PM
Portland. A Turning Point?
by pondering_it_all
09/28/20 02:33 AM
Honesty, morality, and integrity
by logtroll
09/28/20 12:22 AM
Forum Stats
6292 Members
60 Forums
17011 Topics
303625 Posts

Max Online: 294 @ 12/06/17 12:57 AM
Google Adsense
Page 2 of 8 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#328906 - 09/20/20 06:09 AM Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Has Died [Re: perotista]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43449
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: perotista
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Had Merrick Garland been allowed to be appointed, I would feel very differently. That, I think, was a pure affront to democracy. This nomination will be a paean to hypocrisy.


What was an affront to Democracy was McConnell not allowing a vote on Garland. McConnell had more than enough votes to deny Garland a seat on the SCOTUS. I can think of only one reason why McConnell did so. It was political payback for Schumer 18 months before Bush's presidency came to an end in 2007, Schumer stating there would be no vote on any Bush's nominees if an opening came open.

these days each party wants political payback and it escalates with each passing year.

You can bet if Biden wins and the democrats regain the senate, the filibuster is totally gone so the democrats can push through anything they want. The days of working together, cooperation and compromise are long gone in this modern era of polarization and mega, ultra high partisanship.

I think that will be the doom of us all.

And there WILL be 13 SCOTUS judges as well because the Dems will take both the Senate and WH in Blue Wave 2018 part 2.0 smile

America has had enough with Rightwing extremism and stupid non-science assholery. smile
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#328907 - 09/20/20 07:30 AM Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Has Died [Re: perotista]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 470
Originally Posted By: perotista
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Had Merrick Garland been allowed to be appointed, I would feel very differently. That, I think, was a pure affront to democracy. This nomination will be a paean to hypocrisy.


What was an affront to Democracy was McConnell not allowing a vote on Garland. McConnell had more than enough votes to deny Garland a seat on the SCOTUS. I can think of only one reason why McConnell did so. It was political payback for Schumer 18 months before Bush's presidency came to an end in 2007, Schumer stating there would be no vote on any Bush's nominees if an opening came open.

these days each party wants political payback and it escalates with each passing year.

You can bet if Biden wins and the democrats regain the senate, the filibuster is totally gone so the democrats can push through anything they want. The days of working together, cooperation and compromise are long gone in this modern era of polarization and mega, ultra high partisanship.

I think that will be the doom of us all.


The tit-for-tat does, indeed, create a vicious cycle; with each side feeling justified in upping the ante each time because "they did it to us" and "they only understand power". frown

I think you are correct that we may be watching the early stages of the disintegration of the Republic. Especially if Trump gets a nomination through and Democrats respond by court-packing.

Which, of course, the next Republican would respond to by court packing.

Which of course.... etc. so on and so forth.


It ends with power becoming so weaponized that giving it up peacefully "just" because "maybe" you lost an "election" becomes dangerous.

And that, boys and girls, is how incentivizing policy-makers to continue to destroy norms in exercising power over opposing parties is how you turn this Republic into one of the Banana variety.

OTOH, maybe Mattis will cross the Potomac. I can see myself working with that.
_________________________
Winter Is Coming

Top
#328916 - 09/20/20 02:11 PM Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Has Died [Re: pdx rick]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10380
Loc: One of the Mexicos
We must let the PEOPLE choose!

But what about if when Garland's nomination was rejected that Reeps justified their refusal to advise and consent based on the new rule that new judges can't be seated during an election year?

Here are the Republican Senators who said they won't support a nomination until after the next president is inaugurated.

Lisa Murkowski, Alaska
Mitt Romney, Utah
Susan Collins, Maine

Chuck Grassley may be ‘on the fence’—he said that if he was still Judiciary Committee chair, he wouldn’t hold a hearing on a nominee this year.

Republican Senator Lindsay Graham changed his mind, suggesting that a hypothetical vacancy this year would be “a different situation” from the Scalia vacancy. Graham is the chair of the Judiciary Committee and will have a major role in determining how this plays out.

Here is a list of Republican Senators who said in 2016 that it was too close to the presidential election for President Barack Obama to choose a replacement. It should be up to the voters to decide in November, they argued.

Then, it was 9 months until the election. Now, it’s less than 2 months.

Sen. Cory Gardner (R-CO)
Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX)
Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX)
Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL)
Sen. Jim Inhofe (R-OK)
Sen. Joni Ernst (R-IA)
Sen. Thom Tillis (R-NC)
Sen. David Perdue (R-GA)
Sen. Tim Scott (R-SC)
Sen. Ron Johnson (R-WI)
Sen. Pat Toomey (R-PA)
Sen. Richard Burr (R-NC)
Sen. Roy Blunt (R-MO)
Sen. John Hoeven (R-ND)
Sen. Rob Portman (R-OH)
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

Top
#328918 - 09/20/20 03:09 PM Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Has Died [Re: logtroll]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7342
Loc: Highlands, Tx
The only thing that matters is .... Republicans have the power NOW and don't give a frak about next week or next year or if they never get back in power .... they can frak Democrats now ... they can confirm a justice who will become a legislative activist overturning every progressive initiative made in the last 75 years and then laugh at Democrat/liberal indignation

when Newt Gingrich said it was his way or the hiway ... you were fraked ... America was fraked and now we can all sit back and watch the decline and fall of America from our rocking chair as Mr Trump smirkingly plays his fiddle ... he will have burned it to the ground so Russia can pick over the pieces
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

Top
#328925 - 09/20/20 05:23 PM Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Has Died [Re: pdx rick]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 927
The current era of polarization, mega, ultra high partisanship. It's came to a point during the last six years of Obama and now Trump, more important to stop everything either one did by the opposing party that to try to work something out and compromise.

It's a case of follow your party leaders lockstep, like mindless robots. The two major parties in my opinion look on the other as out to destroy America. The other party has become this nation's number one enemy.

In a more saner political era, yes, Garland would have been voted on and confirmed. But that was an era where in the senate we had leaders like Lott and Daschle, Mitchell and Dole, even Baker and Byrd. Who held 200 years of senate tradition in high esteem. Who respected each other and could work with each other. Where none of them would even dream of the nuclear option let alone be the first one to use it. Perhaps it's loyalty to party or a president has over taken loyalty to country.

I think Trump is a result of this, not the cause. The cause began 20-30 years earlier in my opinion. It has expanded vastly since then. Garland would have been defeated solely because he was nominated by a Democratic President. He made sense to me, but that is me.

I think our politics have become all about the R and the D. What's good for the party and not necessarily the nation. I also think this era of politics we're in is the main reason for the rise in independents, the non-affiliated from 30% in 2006 to 40% today as folks are deserting both major parties.

We're in an era where 54% of all Americans view the Democratic Party in a very negative way, only to be outdone by the Republican Party's 60% negative view. Neither party is liked, if you don't belong to either one, it's mostly disdain for both. for the most part only Republicans view their party favorably, only democrats view their party favorably.

I have hope that Biden could bring us back to a saner era. One prior to Reid, Schumer, McConnell in the senate. Biden has a long history as a senator of working across the aisle and as VP brokering with McConnell a means to end the government shutdown over the debt ceiling. Will McConnell and the GOP allow Biden to? Will the Democrats in congress allow Biden to work across the aisle? Unanswered questions. Or is our polarization and mega, ultra high partisan so high, so ingrained, there is not a chance of a return to normalcy and a saner political era?
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

Top
#328926 - 09/20/20 05:36 PM Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Has Died [Re: pdx rick]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3686
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
As far as I can tell all the cries for fairness, etc., when it comes to judges are all cries in the wilderness and nobody is really listening. The folks with the power pick the judges. This is true, regardless of party or side. Garland was a little egregious but that happened because Moscow Mitch has a death grip on his caucus and was able to pull it off. The simple fact remains, the decision will be made during the lame duck session and there may be Republicans who for any number of reasons may not give Mitch what he needs. We will know in a couple of months what's going to happen. Until then the battle of words, threats, anger and almost understanding will continue, unabated and, in the end, its gonna get repetitious and probably boring.

The shame of it all is that nobody is going to give an inch and sit down and try and work it out. If the Dems win, especially if they win big, they will deal with the problem. If they don't win then all bets are off and I don't even want to think about the results. Has anybody thought about the United States of America if Trump wins another term, takes over, dies and then one of his jackass sons takes over? My point is that there are a LOT worse things than what is happening right now!

Top
#328930 - 09/20/20 09:16 PM Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Has Died [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10477
Loc: North San Diego County
At least one of his jackass sons would not be demented, and might listen to the experts and not break the law constantly. On the other hand Trump's evil is moderated by his incompetence: He tries to do some very bad stuff, but doesn't bother to do it in a way that can withstand court challenges.

Top
#328935 - 09/21/20 03:25 AM Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Has Died [Re: perotista]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7342
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
The two major parties in my opinion look on the other as out to destroy America.
Should I conclude you do not see either party trying to destroy America???

From a purely arbitrary rational perspective I would say as many have that both sides want a better America but see different ways of achieving that goal. Unfortunately that view does not reflect reality.

If you would write a list of what Trumpites have done and are doing regarding advancing America, and then compare to your list of the Democrat agenda. Which serves the American people? or you can turn that around and consider how each party is trying to destroy America. From either perspective there is a remarkable difference.

And to conclude I will appeal to experts, former Trump staff, who have told the inside story of the Trump administration. If one doesn't conclude he is trying to destroy America,I would suggest one has been asleep at the wheel and ones vehicle is no longer between the white lines.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

Top
#328937 - 09/21/20 11:13 AM Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Has Died [Re: CPWILL]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43449
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
...And that, boys and girls, is how incentivizing policy-makers to continue to destroy norms in exercising power over opposing parties...

And who is incentivizing politicos to destroy norms? Nobody that I know. Sounds like this is one of your fantasies. Much like Trump, you doth project too much. coffee
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#328939 - 09/21/20 11:22 AM Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Has Died [Re: rporter314]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10380
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: rporter314
[quote]And to conclude I will appeal to experts, former Trump staff, who have told the inside story of the Trump administration. If one doesn't conclude he is trying to destroy America,I would suggest one has been asleep at the wheel and ones vehicle is no longer between the white lines.

Ain’t that the truth!
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

Top
Page 2 of 8 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >

Who's Online
0 registered (), 59 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Superfly, GreatNewsTonight, danarhea, RoughDraft274, CPWILL
6292 Registered Users
A2