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#329172 - 09/28/20 12:53 PM Re: Do both sides really do it? [Re: pondering_it_all]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10380
Loc: One of the Mexicos
According to a 2006 study of earmarks by the Congressional Research Service, earmarks trended just under 2% of the federal budget. My own guess is that <10% of that amount was actually wasted on negatively productive items. But I recall, in the earmark elimination discussions, hearing that they were instrumental in the legislative negotiation process. Lots of deal-making between Congress critters, including in social settings.

Could be that’s in the nature of the beast?
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To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
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#329174 - 09/28/20 05:36 PM Re: Do both sides really do it? [Re: pondering_it_all]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3694
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Not only that but it forced them to talk to one another to get them done! Their voters expect them to bring home the bacon and that was how it was done.


Edited by jgw (09/28/20 05:37 PM)

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#329177 - 09/28/20 06:38 PM Re: Do both sides really do it? [Re: logtroll]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 933
There's no doubt congress forces the military to buy things they don't need and are unwanted by the military, even after they, DOD, JCS tells congress that. Congress uses the military more as a civilian jobs maintainer and creator than as an instrument for national defense, security for this country and to keep her free. But just giving the military what it needs to keep this country free, secure and well defended and no more. That would mean the loss of tens of thousands of civilian jobs back home in their states and districts.

I do agree on the ear marks, they were about the game of give and take, compromise. Give me something I want and I'll go along with what you want. I do think the elimination of earmarks contributed to the current atmosphere of polarization and mega, ultra high partisanship where neither side is willing to give the other anything.
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It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#329180 - 09/28/20 08:46 PM Re: Do both sides really do it? [Re: perotista]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17393
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Congress uses the military more as a civilian jobs maintainer and creator than as an instrument for national defense,


That's the industrial side of the military industrial complex. The private side...the corrupt side. The corporates side, where hammers cost $1000 and toilets seats $3000.

That's what Eisenhauer was warning us about.
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#329184 - 09/28/20 10:59 PM Re: Do both sides really do it? [Re: Greger]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 933
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
Congress uses the military more as a civilian jobs maintainer and creator than as an instrument for national defense,


That's the industrial side of the military industrial complex. The private side...the corrupt side. The corporates side, where hammers cost $1000 and toilets seats $3000.

That's what Eisenhauer was warning us about.

I'm sure you're right. But is that what a congressman is looking at when he votes for an example more purchases of the C-130. Sustaining the military industrial complex or thinking about the 3-5,000 jobs lost in his district. Or state if one is a senator.

I'm sure that congressman knows or senator knows the military has more C-130's than it needs and will ever use. But neither wants to face the job losses in their district or state if the contract is terminated.

Now the C-130 is just an example. I was shocked to learn they're still manufacturing them. I don't think it is that any congressman or senator says they'll support the military industrial complex, it just the fear of losing those civilian jobs, very well paying jobs back home. Lose those jobs, they may lose the next election.

Another way to put it is either bring home the bacon or we'll elect someone who can.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#329186 - 09/28/20 11:04 PM Re: Do both sides really do it? [Re: logtroll]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10489
Loc: North San Diego County
Still, it would be nice if they could "bring home the bacon" for something somebody actually wanted.

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#329189 - 09/28/20 11:49 PM Re: Do both sides really do it? [Re: perotista]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17393
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I'm sure you're right. But is that what a congressman is looking at when he votes for an example more purchases of the C-130. Sustaining the military industrial complex or thinking about the 3-5,000 jobs lost in his district. Or state if one is a senator.


Thinking about jobs might have once been the case...these days he's thinking about that big check from Lockheed.
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#329200 - 09/29/20 11:13 AM Re: Do both sides really do it? [Re: logtroll]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 933
I think it is probably a bit of both, losing jobs and votes, plus that donation check.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#329202 - 09/29/20 06:43 PM Re: Do both sides really do it? [Re: logtroll]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3694
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I continue to believe that Biden should institute a Job Program as they did during the depression. https://www.history.com/topics/great-depression/civilian-conservation-corps It provided jobs, fixed a lot of infrastructure and pretty much went away as the economy healed. EVERYBODY won on that one! The Military thing is something easy for congress to do to provide jobs. The shame of it is that your entire infrastructure is virtually fading away and NOBODY is doing anything about it until people die (collapsing bridges, etc) and then, finally they will fix a bridge that everybody knew was going to collapse for 20 years.

I know, everybody hates China. I have watched them, over the years and visited there a number of times. If they have a problem with jobs the first thing they do is infrastructure stuff. I have talked to some about that one. They figure that everytime they do it that their economy does better and it pays for itself in the long run. They have, for instance, virtually rebuilt their railroads and highways. We, however, can't even seem to fix them let alone rebuild them. Our seeming inability to think it through and do the sensible thing seems to be further and further from our dwindling capacity. Now, when you add in trump, I would submit that we are in serious decline and that is even rarely given any thought at all. The people who are really going to notice are our children and grand children. They are going to have to deal with what we leave and we are leaving sh*t!

https://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/


Edited by jgw (09/29/20 06:47 PM)

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#329204 - 09/29/20 08:03 PM Re: Do both sides really do it? [Re: jgw]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17393
Loc: Florida
Quote:
They are going to have to deal with what we leave and we are leaving sh*t!

And that's why they are going to institute social democracy as soon as we Boomers get out of the way.
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