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#329913 - 11/03/20 06:13 PM Re: Coronavirus: The Plague of The 21st Century? [Re: pondering_it_all]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3954
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Is Dr Mina's 1$ spit test available? I have noticed that ebay, for instance, is selling a test for something like 275.00 or more as is Amazon. I continue to believe Dr. Mina's solution is actually a large part of beating up Covid-19 bigtime so, for some inexplicable reason is not, as far as I know, available.

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#329954 - 11/05/20 08:06 AM Re: Coronavirus: The Plague of The 21st Century? [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10892
Loc: North San Diego County
Several companies could mass produce them, but the FDA does not have an approval procedure for a home test that is insensitive enough to only show "positive" when somebody is contagious. And those are the important features of these strips.

Instead they insist on tests being much more sensitive, which will give positive results on dead virus fragments long after people are no longer contagious. They also want such tests performed in a certified lab by a certified tech. Not at all compatible with Dr. Mina's proposal.

Problems are not technical. They are FDA red tape.

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#329965 - 11/05/20 07:54 PM Re: Coronavirus: The Plague of The 21st Century? [Re: pondering_it_all]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3954
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
i believe that one but simply don't understand the why of it. I keep thinking about tests like that which could, basically, open it all up for a buck a throw. One would think, for instance, that our national jackass Trump would have pushed that one through on the getgo if he actually wanted the economy to turn on. Oh, I forgot, the economy is one of them things that Trump knows EVERYTHING about! When that happens, as far as I can tell, everything just stops. (sorry, couldn't resist)

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#329993 - 11/06/20 03:53 PM Re: Coronavirus: The Plague of The 21st Century? [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17485
I have to re-find it, but a science mag had a good article about the problem with these tests. The gist of which is that the process fails to account for the results, meaning that data is unavailable to the public health system and can't be tracked, thwarting track and trace and hiding hotspots. Also, they create a false sense of security. By the time one is found positive, they're already contagious and the virus has already spread. The White House is a prime example of that problem.

Found it!The hidden public health hazard of rapid Covid-19 tests (STAT News).


Edited by NW Ponderer (11/06/20 04:34 PM)

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#330002 - 11/06/20 07:12 PM Re: Coronavirus: The Plague of The 21st Century? [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10892
Loc: North San Diego County
What Dr. Mina proposed is tests strips everybody would use every day before they go out and potentially spread the virus. These strips are sensitive enough to show a positive result before you have enough of a viral load to be contagious. Get a positive result in 15 minutes or less, and go into quarantine. Ideally, all other household members would quarantine as well, but even if those testing negative left the house, the susceptible ones would test positive before becoming contagious within a few days.

Rapid tests that have to be administered by a certified lab can't possibly be taken by everybody every day. So we would wind up having tests only for people with symptoms. Way too little and too late to avoid spreading. The only useful time for tests is between exposure and symptoms, to prevent the spread. Most of our current tests are done now on patients who are no longer contagious!

The UK has a Tracker App for smart phones, and they get very good participation and compliance. If we created state websites with enough capacity, I think people would comply with instructions to report over the internet. Especially if public health authorities immediately delivered food and prophylactic treatment like high-dose 25-hydroxy-Vitamin D. The website URL would be on the test strip box. And the Vitamin D therapy has the tremendous advantage of keeping the ICUs practically empty.

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#330004 - 11/06/20 08:24 PM Re: Coronavirus: The Plague of The 21st Century? [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3954
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
the trick, I think, is that if everybody had a supply of these things, as well as bars, restaurants, barber shops, etc. gave one to anybody who wants to come in then they could all join back up with the good old days. Everybody should probably also still wear face masks but still. Should also test everybody who works too!

The real trick will be to get a regular test if you are positive to find out if you should hide out at home or go into the hospital. This would also give gov what they need to know about covid-19 whilst allowing them who are not infected to get on with their lives.

In a perfect world this should, pretty much, deal with Covid-19 until the wonder vaccine appears (good for a minimum of one entire year, 95% effective, free, works on all age groups, and no side effects)



Edited by jgw (11/06/20 08:29 PM)

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#330050 - 11/07/20 07:28 PM Re: Coronavirus: The Plague of The 21st Century? [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17485
Important to note: I am GREATLY in favor of widespread rapid testing. But, every action has a reaction, and there are consequences for that, from the public health concerns to the complacency that frequent testing can engender (See Donald Trump, soon-to-be-former President).

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#330052 - 11/07/20 07:40 PM Re: Coronavirus: The Plague of The 21st Century? [Re: NW Ponderer]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10800
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Important to note: I am GREATLY in favor of widespread rapid testing. But, every action has a reaction, and there are consequences for that, from the public health concerns to the complacency that frequent testing can engender (See Donald Trump, soon-to-be-former President).

But won't more testing increase the number of cases?
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#330056 - 11/07/20 08:58 PM Re: Coronavirus: The Plague of The 21st Century? [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10892
Loc: North San Diego County
One aspect of widespread daily testing I hadn't thought of, is that testing yourself to make sure you are not going to spread the virus does not mean you won't catch the virus once you leave the house! Maybe everybody who tests negative should wear their negative paper strip on their forehead when they go out in public? Sort of like an "I voted" sticker.

Or maybe it's enough that all daily testers just shun people not wearing masks. Testing changes the whole mask equation: Instead of wearing the mask to protect others from you, people would be wearing the mask to insure they get a low viral load if they do get infected. Looks like that is a real advantage.

The original and perhaps best goal for daily testing is to make schools a "safe bubble" each day. Certainly offices and factories could do the same. It really would open up the economy, so you would think that both sides of the political divide would support it.

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#330100 - 11/09/20 02:25 AM Re: Coronavirus: The Plague of The 21st Century? [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10892
Loc: North San Diego County
I was watching a pretty sophisticated YouTube post today with five virologists zooming. One said lots of people are coming to the hospitals with Covid-19 symptoms but refusing to be tested, because they want to keep on working. Well, we know about half the people in America are sociopaths. This confirms it. This could lead to some interesting lawsuits for reckless negligence when they give it to somebody who then dies.

The one bright point in the coming months until we have available vaccines: Almost all of the people refusing to wear masks or social distance, are Trumptards. I've refrained from using that appellation until now, but refusing to follow simple public health guidelines when infections are spreading like wildfire qualifies them.

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