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#329698 - 10/20/20 11:24 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: pondering_it_all]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2675
Some background of the law suit brought against the Obama administration by Hedges against the very authoritarian DAA.

The same DAA that Liberals renewed for our so-called authoritarian president by the way. Odd that...


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#329702 - 10/21/20 10:16 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43762
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


Condolences to the PIA family. frown
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#329705 - 10/21/20 07:10 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7468
Loc: Highlands, Tx
My Takeaway from reading latest 538 predictions is, if you haven't voted ... vote now .... and if you have voted .... vote again

MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD!!!!!!
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Trump was dumped .... but he won't leave

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#329710 - 10/21/20 11:27 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10773
Loc: North San Diego County
No, no, no: Please don't try to vote twice. I want to make sure the only people indicted for vote fraud are Trumpkins. Directing people to commit that felony is yet another charge for Trump's post inauguration day party.

Thank you all, for the condolences. The worst part was actually not being able to get in to say goodbye, because of the facility lockdown. My mom was actually on Kaiser Medicare Advantage with TriCare covering all copays being a widow of a guy who retired from the military.

My wife was on ACA with a 100% subsidy for the year before she went on Medicare. If not for some stupid Republican Governors, nobody in the US would suffer from health care they can't afford. Medicaid is free and available up to a certain income. ACA at 100% subsidy is supposed to start at just above that. It has sliding subsidies, so nobody should be unable to afford it. It does get expensive if you don't qualify for a subsidy, but those people make enough to pay for it.

People do decide they would rather have a new car than pay for it, but that's their choice and they are idiots. People in certain states do fall in the gap their governors left by not accepting Medicaid expansion, but that's their Governor's fault, not Joe Biden's.

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#329712 - 10/22/20 03:04 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7468
Loc: Highlands, Tx
All of my facetious "vote as many times as possible" comments are directed toward and inspired by the most stable genius I know ... and adore ... and sing paeans extolling his greatest ... and
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Trump was dumped .... but he won't leave

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#329715 - 10/22/20 01:04 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2675
“The USA stands alone as the only high-income country not to provide health care as a human right, leaving almost 80 million of its citizens without adequate insurance.1, 2, 3 In a 2020 study, we found that securing quality health care for the entire country would save 68&#8200;000 lives and 1·73 million life-years annually.4“

Lanet

Medicare expansion is available only with means testing. You need to be at or below poverty level. Currently around 20k. Above that and you are exposed to high deductibles and co-pays making it horrendously expensive for average wages.
The flaw with liberalism is its market fealty and means testing that has produced the worlds most expensive healthcare industry with poor results.
Liberalism ideologically opposes ‘universal’ concepts. A belief in equal ‘opportunity’ with limited government assistance while opposed to equal outcomes is a core historical belief. Let’s be honest here. If you break down liberalism’s demographics, it has more to do with maintaining class distinctions than it does efficacy or rational resource distribution. Ie: liberal requirement for means testing to patrol and secure class boundaries. If 65k have to die to police those class divisions, liberals will shrug and point out the moral failings if it’s victims while ignoring the structural flaws of a system that kills thousands.

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#329717 - 10/22/20 06:46 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3875
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Liberalism - really?

I have been pounding the hell out of this one for years. If Biden does a clean sweep there is actually a chance. The question is, really, whether he has the backbone. Corona has, pretty much, proven that our healthcare is too expense and not up to doing the job. The problem is that there are so many people working on the edges of healthcare; insurance and private providers, the TV Industry to name a few and a LOT more than that). I remember when our system of healthcare created the auto industry in Canada - we just couldn't compete. Basically, there are a LOT of reasons we should change and there are a LOT of folks fighting like hell to leave it alone.

Its really quite interesting when you get to watch people literally sacrifice their well being and even their own lives to maintain a failed system. Obama, for instance, said, right out loud that he wanted to also have the 'option' and he couldn't even get that done when he owned the congress - EVERYBODY was against it! Remember our system of healthcare is something like 18% of our entire economy!

I know, everybody is concerned about healthcare. That, however, is exactly just how far it goes. Soon as words like "single payer", "tax supported", etc. arise the screams begin. Some how we need a national visit to our healthcare system and that hasn't happened yet!

Its really easy to blame this, or that, group but, in the case of our healthcare that isn't really going to fly. There has to be some kind of national effort to just explain it all! I find it very strange, for instance, when any of that is mentioned one of the first things mentioned is that auto workers could never give up their hard won healthcare!

The United States of America seem to be completely dedicated to screwing themselves over because nobody ever, apparently, told them there is a better way demonstrated by, basically, the entire rest of the industrialized freaking world! We also take great pride in our "common sense" - Really?

I suspect our problems are a LOT bigger than anybody thinks - A LOT BIGGER!

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#329718 - 10/22/20 10:05 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10773
Loc: North San Diego County
Unfortunately, American exceptionalism is deeply embedded in a lot of the population, all across the political spectrum. Fix that, and we could actually look at other countries approaches to health care and adopt useful alternatives. And it's not the case that all other countries, or even all other developed countries, have the same solution.

When ACA was being considered in Congress, partisan politics was a major roadblock. Democrats bent over backwards getting bipartisan input. Republicans wrote a lot of it, and then unanimously voted against the bill that was essentially RomneyCare. Blue dog Democrats and the Senator from the insurance industry blocked a public option. If there had one more Liberal Democrat in the Senate, we could have had one, and ACA would have evolved into single-payer by now.

Maybe in February we will have the Congress that can patch the loopholes and add a public option, and also designate it as out of the jurisdiction of the courts.

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#329719 - 10/22/20 10:32 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10773
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
Medicare expansion is available only with means testing. You need to be at or below poverty level. Currently around 20k. Above that and you are exposed to high deductibles and co-pays making it horrendously expensive for average wages.

I'm pretty sure you meant Medicaid, not Medicare.

In states with reasonable Governors (all Democrats and some Republicans), the top income level for Medicaid meets the bottom income for ACA. Medicaid is all free. Bottom income ACA is 100% subsidized, with a lot of preventive care included and programs for copay assistance. The subsidies are very generous have a sliding scale, so are you complaining that well-paid people are not getting free ACA? That doesn't sound very progressive to me!

The coverage gap in some states is obviously the fault of those Republican ideolog Governors who rejected Medicaid expansion. It's quite a stretch to blame that on Liberals.

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#329723 - 10/23/20 03:00 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: pondering_it_all]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2675
Yes, I do want people of all income levels to have a ‘medicare for all’ plan.
It comes hard to liberals to think of universal programs. It takes away their right to police who gets provisioned and allows them, as well as their conservative cousins, to exploit the subsequent tensions that come from the creation of classes having different levels deserving.
Are you supporting health insurance companies over universal healthcare, as Biden has declared in tonight’s debates? If so, why?

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