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#329725 - 10/23/20 05:17 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: pondering_it_all]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3875
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I remember it well. Watched the Republicans mark it up and add a bunch of stuff.

It won't be too much longer to find out. First they have to lose, then Trump needs to be dealt with, and THEN we will find out.

The thing that gives me some hope is that straight forward paper ballots are available if anybody challenges and they don't get mistakenly destroyed (I put nothing past the Republicans this time around as Trump has infected them all!)


Edited by jgw (10/24/20 06:11 PM)

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#329727 - 10/23/20 09:05 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10773
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
Are you supporting health insurance companies over universal healthcare, as Biden has declared in tonightís debates? If so, why?


I'm actually in favor of British-style National Health. Not MediCare For All, because my Medicare drug coverage copays actually costs me about $6000 per year, while my Blue Cross had a much lower copay cost. The problem is that Medicare drug costs have a weird donut hole and then Catastrophic Care level coverage has the patient paying 5% of the drug retail price. Combine that with drug companies charging any price they like with a monopoly on a new drug for many years, and voila: Drugs seniors can't afford.

BUT, (and this is a very important BUT), Democrats barely got ACA made into law over 10 years ago, and Republicans have been doing everything they can think up to kill it ever since. So I believe that in the real world, ACA was the best we could do then. Even including a public option stopped passage until it was removed. That's just how real politics works. You can't take your opponents in Congress out back and shoot them. People in their states or districts vote them in and they get to vote on bills. Want to change things to be better? Change voter's hearts.

Democrats might vote for National Health, if they get enough voter support. Republicans never will.

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#329732 - 10/23/20 10:09 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17484
In 2016, Trump gained a quarter of his electoral votes from just 191,000 votes in the closest four states. Trump won Florida, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan by less than 1.3%. 538 has Biden winning all four, three of them handily.

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#329733 - 10/23/20 11:08 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2675
Real clear politics has Biden at the same spot as Clinton in the top battleground states. 3.8%

Top Battlegrounds 2020 vs. 2016


Edited by chunkstyle (10/23/20 11:10 PM)

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#329734 - 10/23/20 11:12 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2675
I find it darkly hilarious that it's this close and polling had Sanders performing better than the DNC anointed candidates of both 2016 and 2020 against Trump.

Awww waddya gunna do. Better than the threat of a New Dealist realignment I suppose.


Edited by chunkstyle (10/23/20 11:13 PM)

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#329735 - 10/23/20 11:31 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: pondering_it_all]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2675
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Quote:
Are you supporting health insurance companies over universal healthcare, as Biden has declared in tonightís debates? If so, why?


I'm actually in favor of British-style National Health. Not MediCare For All, because my Medicare drug coverage copays actually costs me about $6000 per year, while my Blue Cross had a much lower copay cost. The problem is that Medicare drug costs have a weird donut hole and then Catastrophic Care level coverage has the patient paying 5% of the drug retail price. Combine that with drug companies charging any price they like with a monopoly on a new drug for many years, and voila: Drugs seniors can't afford.

BUT, (and this is a very important BUT), Democrats barely got ACA made into law over 10 years ago, and Republicans have been doing everything they can think up to kill it ever since. So I believe that in the real world, ACA was the best we could do then. Even including a public option stopped passage until it was removed. That's just how real politics works. You can't take your opponents in Congress out back and shoot them. People in their states or districts vote them in and they get to vote on bills. Want to change things to be better? Change voter's hearts.

Democrats might vote for National Health, if they get enough voter support. Republicans never will.


Your still not clued up to the Sanders 'Medicare for all' plan he had put out during the campaign? Hadn't read the proposal?

I thought we had this discussion 50 pages back? I even provided a link to it at the time for anyone to read it so's you'd understand it's not the same thing as what you have.

I think you made the same incorrect comparison then as now..

Anyway. Who cares, right? Ain't happening now either way this elections going. Missed the shot and there's only been a few since Roosevelt. We'll continue to talk. People will go broke, die or both under our current Dunkin Donuts managed system.



Edited by chunkstyle (10/23/20 11:31 PM)

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#329736 - 10/24/20 03:31 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7468
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I hear Brunhilde clearing her throat with a "do re mi" .... but I haven't heard the "Hojotoho"!
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Trump was dumped .... but he won't leave

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#329738 - 10/24/20 04:27 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17484
RCP is crap. I keep pointing this out. They have no quality control.

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#329739 - 10/24/20 06:41 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10773
Loc: North San Diego County
I actually voted for Sanders in the California Primary, but he lost. Doesn't matter what Sanders proposed, because he did not get enough primary votes to win. You have to win the primary and then the election to actually make changes.

Your ideas might be so brilliant that the winners adopt them, but they get the credit then. Ideas are a dime a dozen.

I am happy getting what's possible. I might want the impossible, but by definition that's not going to happen.

As I said before, you have to change voter's hearts. Make them into better people who care about others, the future, and The Republic. Essentially civic virtue.

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#329742 - 10/24/20 12:53 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: pondering_it_all]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2675
Ok. Sounds like you didnít actually read the proposal and still conflate Medicare for allí with current Medicare.

You donít have to Ďchange hearts and mindsí the public is already there. Acting like itís not is so much reducing expectations that liberals politicians do. Iíve stated before, popular will of voters has had nearly no effect on legislation at the federal level. Thereís has been good research on this fact so arguing outside of this reality with someone is like arguing with a Qanon conspiracist.

Oddly, Qanon does get the gist right from time to time. They were much more ahead on the wealthy pedophilia going on. Details were pretty incorrect but they called the crime ring right. But thatís a different thread.

No, thereís nothing unique to America and adoption of progressive policies on healthcare. Both factions have been skilled at lowering peopleís expectations while enriching the only class of voters they care about. Donor class obviously.

How bout that final debate. Epic, watching thoroughly corrupt liars going at each otherís corruption. You gotta love the lack of any quality material to be had in either factions candidate.




Edited by chunkstyle (10/24/20 01:09 PM)

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