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#329774 - 10/25/20 06:01 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3753
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Yep, he had the full support of socialists, purists, etc. Not, however, the middle or independents. Sorry, its just the way it is. The Republicans REALLY know that and use it at any opportunity and it works for them.

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#329776 - 10/25/20 06:50 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2522
Bring receipts of what your talking about, JGW.
Otherwise, your doing your usual Ďthatís just the way it isí punting.

Whatever you do, worry about Republican reaction first and foremost. Thatís just how politics works.

For some.

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#329778 - 10/25/20 08:04 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
perotista Online   content
member

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 1022
I think what won it for Biden was he was viewed more electable and more likely to beat Trump. Back on 3 March 2020, just prior to Super Tuesday, 66% of Democrats thought Biden would beat Trump, 19% thought he'd lose. Among independents, 23% thought Biden would win, 43% that he'd lose to Trump.

Sanders, 52% of Democrats thought he'd beat Trump, 29% thought he'd lose to Trump. So among Democrats prior to super Tuesday, Biden was thought to have the better chance of winning. Independents 24% thought Sanders would win, 45% thought he'd lose. That's a wash. Questions 42A and 42E.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/3rdraw493c/econTabReport.pdf

Since Democrats outnumber independents in voting in the Democratic Primaries by at least 4-1, it isn't surprising Biden ended up the nominee as more Democrats thought he had the best chance of beating Trump. Beating Trump was first and foremost their reason for voting for him. At least that's my perspective.

You could take this further by the poll showing Biden was the Democrats first choice 34% to 22% over Sanders while independents who voted in the Democratic primaries gave their vote to Sanders 33-14 over Biden. But they were overwhelmed by the party faithful. Question 40.

Now this means independents who lean democratic and who voted in the Democratic Primaries, not independents as a whole. Far from it. I would say, Biden looked like the safe bet to beat Trump and that's why he won the nomination.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#329779 - 10/25/20 08:53 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: perotista]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2522
I wouldn't disagree that at some points Biden was more popular than Sanders during the campaign. Not going to read the chart but thanks for the offer. I'm worried it'll lead to a pie chart fight anyhow.

That's not so say that I wasn't paying attention, as I'm sure you were Perisota.

Biden had BIG amplitude during the campaign. Meaning he had the widest spread in being up then being down. He was getting shopped thru out the campaign. Other candidates were being spun at various times and received the media bump or wilted in the glare.

Kamala, Warren Beto and the office rat all had their turn and flamed out.

Only Sanders had the grind going on. His chart, over time, had consistent gain. He needed to hammer it before he ran out of runway.

Spot on about the tilt in the primaries toward party brand. I posted about this annoyingly often and the various gate keeping going on. Even now they're trying to get the Green Party thrown off the ballot in Pennsylvania.

Limit consumer choice I suppose...

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#329780 - 10/25/20 09:08 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
perotista Online   content
member

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 1022
You don't have that many open primaries where independents can vote in the primaries. You either have to be a registered Democrat or a registered Republican. I'm lucky as here in Georgia, one just registers to vote and can vote in either primary. I think at last count 28 states were closed primaries, the remaining 22 open where independents can vote in the primaries.

The two major parties will go to any length to keep third parties off the ballot. Yes, it all about maintaining their monopoly and limiting choices.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#329782 - 10/26/20 03:28 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: perotista]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17476
Loc: Florida
We've got an amendment on the ballot to make Florida primaries open...but only state offices.

I voted for it today.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#329783 - 10/26/20 04:58 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: perotista]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17476
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I think what won it for Biden was he was viewed more electable and more likely to beat Trump.

That's the deal right there. We all new from the start that anybody else was a longshot.

I was rooting for Beto at first, he woulda been fun.

Then I went for Warren, she woulda been awesome. She's kind of a technocrat and I like that.

When Bernie took that jump near the end I got really excited!

Then Biden won just as we knew he would. It was an exciting primary and the Democratic Party platform moved slightly left thanks to Bernie's participation.

I'm okay with how it turned out.

He probably is too...and he is actively campaigning for progressive candidates all over the country! He's kind of like Benjamin Franklin, y'know? Was never a president but got his face on the century note!

There's a lot of interesting things coming up politically, mostly positive I think. Joe will be able to get some things done that need to be done, and the crazies will fade back into the woodwork.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#329784 - 10/26/20 11:44 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: perotista]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43534
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: perotista
...Biden looked like the safe bet to beat Trump and that's why he won the nomination.

That's exactly why Biden was nominated.


Biden has many flaws, cruelty to others is not one of them, dehumanization of others is not one of them. Cruelty towards others and dehumanization and incompetence is not one of them. Incompetence and cruelty are Trump's modus operandi.

Biden was selected to return Washington back to normal, to work with Congress to get things done for the American people. People are sick of Presidents who only work for their base.

smile
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Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#329785 - 10/26/20 11:47 AM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: Greger]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43534
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Greger
I'm okay with how it turned out.

He probably is too...and he is actively campaigning for progressive candidates all over the country! He's kind of like Benjamin Franklin, y'know? Was never a president but got his face on the century note!

There's a lot of interesting things coming up politically, mostly positive I think. Joe will be able to get some things done that need to be done, and the crazies will fade back into the woodwork.

What do you think about Sanders being Labor Secretary?
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#329786 - 10/26/20 12:27 PM Re: Is it too soon to be talking 2020? [Re: chunkstyle]
perotista Online   content
member

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 1022
I agree with all of you from my last post. As for open primaries, why wouldn't you want to give a voice to independents participating in both major parties primaries? After all, it's independents that decide elections, at least for the presidency, not party members as both are too small at this point to do that on their own. Each major party makes up approximately 30% of the electorate these days, independents 40%. Give them a stake in your party.

The old argument that only Republicans and only Democrats should choose their party's nominee is sort of old hat with the shrinkage of both major parties. I understand that, but with the growth in independents, it's time for a change.

2016 was a prime example of independents deciding the presidential election, not the party faithful. It's also an example where independents didn't want the candidates nominated by each party to become their next president. If you go down the list of closed and open primaries, you'll find Trump and Clinton winning most of the closed primary states.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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