Current Topics
Progressives Can’t Find Anyone in Biden's Cabinet to Be Mad About—Yet
by chunkstyle
1 second ago
Is it too soon to be talking 2020?
by perotista
34 minutes 14 seconds ago
Post-Election Mischief
by perotista
54 minutes 25 seconds ago
Roundtable for Samhain 2020
by pdx rick
Today at 08:47 PM
The Support Rule
by pondering_it_all
Today at 08:44 PM
Problems .....
by pondering_it_all
Today at 08:40 PM
Coronavirus: The Plague of The 21st Century?
by pondering_it_all
Today at 08:22 PM
Global warming predictions
by logtroll
11/26/20 12:35 AM
A Lot Went Wrong for Democrats on Election Night
by jgw
11/25/20 09:49 PM
Election day 2020 thread
by chunkstyle
11/23/20 02:44 PM
Which parts of the Constitution have meaning, and which don't?
by logtroll
11/22/20 03:11 PM
Over 90,00 abuse claims against Boy Scouts
by Greger
11/18/20 08:50 PM
Gen. Barry Richard McCaffrey (ret.) sounds the alarm
by pdx rick
11/18/20 05:07 AM
The Vote Rule
by jgw
11/07/20 06:08 PM
Democratic Common Sense
by NW Ponderer
11/06/20 04:40 PM
How to deal with municipal forest fires
by jgw
11/04/20 06:40 PM
International reporting on the election
by Greger
11/03/20 02:03 AM
The new addition to the Supremes
by Greger
11/01/20 09:29 PM
The Portuguese Solution
by jgw
10/31/20 06:37 PM
Forum Stats
6292 Members
60 Forums
17026 Topics
304395 Posts

Max Online: 294 @ 12/06/17 12:57 AM
Google Adsense
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#329806 - 10/27/20 09:11 PM The Vote Rule
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3753
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Last night I was watching a TV politic thing and the subject seemed to be about young black voters. This one applies to ALL young voters. The simple fact is that young voters cannot be counted on to vote. I know, there are some interested enough to vote but, for the most part ............

The rule is this: If you don't vote you WILL be screwed over!

This is true for ALL ages but youth just doesn't. Politicians know who votes and who do not. Those that do not are, pretty much, ignored - by BOTH parties. This is true no matter the subject. If they are too lazy to vote them who cares? This should be taught in high school so they know as, obviously, they haven't a clue!

Top
#329808 - 10/28/20 03:03 AM Re: The Vote Rule [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Online   content
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2523
Voting makes little difference to the lives of ordinary Americans as their preferences are seldom, if ever, expressed in legislation.

The 2014 Princeton study confirmed what the majority of citizens know. It’s political performance art. Vote, don’t vote. Makes no difference. A feature not a bug, as they say.

Top
#329809 - 10/28/20 03:29 AM Re: The Vote Rule [Re: jgw]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17476
Loc: Florida
After just a few years, young voters aren't young anymore and they vote! Millenials are 26-40 years old now. I know a lot of them...they all vote. And the ones I know all vote Democratic.

And I've told you before...Zoomers are like Millenials on steroids.

Young people today are better informed than any generation in history, they know what's going on and they aren't happy about it.

And the thing about old people...after a while they just stop voting entirely...
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

Top
#329810 - 10/28/20 04:20 AM Re: The Vote Rule [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Online   content
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2523
The money shot:

“ What do our findings say about democracy in America? They certainly constitute troubling news for advocates of “populistic” democracy, who want govern- ments to respond primarily or exclusively to the policy preferences of their citizens. In the United States, our findings indicate, the majority does not rule—at least not in the causal sense of actually determining policy outcomes.
When a majority of citizens disagrees with economic elites or with organized interests, they generally lose. Moreover, because of the strong status quo bias built into the U.S. political system, even when fairly large majorities of Americans favor policy change, they generally do not get it.
A possible objection to populistic democracy is that average citizens are inattentive to politics and ignorant about public policy; why should we worry if their poorly- informed preferences do not influence policy making? Perhaps economic elites and interest-group leaders enjoy greater policy expertise than the average citizen does. Perhaps they know better which policies will benefit everyone, and perhaps they seek the common good, rather than selfish ends, when deciding which policies to support.


Princeton study

Doesn’t the first step to solving a problem admit to their being a problem?
Voting won’t be the solution. Not really sure there is one except organizing outside the establishment.

Millenials and Zoomers are in the most desperate straights so maybe desperate times, desperate actions, etc..

Top
#329811 - 10/28/20 12:38 PM Re: The Vote Rule [Re: jgw]
perotista Offline
member

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 1023
The notion that the average citizen is ignorant policies and don't pay much if any attention to politics is probably correct. Numbers, 45% on average of Americans don't bother to vote in presidential elections. since 1970 we have had a low of 49% who voted in 1996 to a high of 58% in 2008. Midterms are a lot worst as on average only 37% of the people will vote in them. I suppose one could say that over 60% of the people don't care who represents them in congress.

That's over a 50 year time period. This in an era where we made voting easier and more available to everyone. I looked backed 50 years prior from 1920-1970 when everyone went to the polls in just one day, no early voting, no mail in ballots, outside of absentee for the military etc. You went to the polls on election day and that was it. 64% of Americans on average voted in presidential elections while 46% voted in the midterms.

Perhaps the average American really doesn't care all that much. Either that or they have come to the conclusion that voting is useless. Or as my son put it, he's 55 and never voted in his life. Why bother he says, Washington is going to do what Washington wants to do whether or not we want them to do it or not. It doesn't matter.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

Top
#329812 - 10/28/20 01:36 PM Re: The Vote Rule [Re: perotista]
chunkstyle Online   content
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2523
The poors are less likely to vote for a variety of reasons but the one argument your son makes is probably the best.
That shouldn’t be confused with ignorance on the non-voters part. They know their reality better than anyone else does. Most Americans preferences fall on deaf ears. It’s the comfortably complacent class with its self re-forcing paternal logic that’s suspect.
This is fine, by the way, it leaves the food trough to a small slice of the two factions and their donors anyway.
If voting and it’s security was ever a priority for either party, they’d make it a federal paid holiday and use near impossible to hack paper ballots, counted and recorded in public, as was done recently in Bolivia. Even our spy’s couldn’t protest that election result. We have the very opposite of that. Not an accident.


Edited by chunkstyle (10/28/20 01:37 PM)

Top
#329813 - 10/28/20 02:26 PM Re: The Vote Rule [Re: jgw]
perotista Offline
member

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 1023
My son has never been interested in politics. He lives and dies on whether the Pittsburgh Steelers lose or win. Outside of the presidency, he couldn't tell you who held any other elected office to include the Governor.

I remember paper ballots, the counting was slow and one didn't know who won until the next day or even the day after. Some races the winner wasn't known for a week or two. We've come a long way, first with electronic voting machines, the big booth where you had to pull the curtain, then flip switches before pulling the lever, then punch cards and now computers.

The numbers show whatever we have done to make voting easier, less people are voting when it was only one day. Could it be the tone of elections? These days it's all negative, candidates trying to get the people to hate the other guy more than they hate you. Nothing positive is presented. Back 50 years ago, it was I have these ideas, this is what I want to do. I want to solve this problem, they gave you reasons why to vote for them. Today, the candidates present the other guy as the worst scumbag devil on the face of the earth, so don't vote for him without a single reason why anyone should vote for you.

I've seen so many political ads for Georgia's special senate election and all of them are nasty as all Hades. It make me not to want to vote for any of them. None have given me a reason to vote for them, just against everyone else.

It like, okay, I won't vote for you since everyone is the dirtiest scum of the earth, I'll vote Libertarian or green. Up yours, you convinced me none of the candidate are worthy.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

Top
#329814 - 10/28/20 06:02 PM Re: The Vote Rule [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3753
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I think I wasn't clear. Let me try a different direction. Why in the world would anybody think that their government is interested in them if they don't vote in elections. Those who run the government are harassed, all the time, about, I suspect, just about everything from all sorts of people. That being the obvious case and they get harassed by a citizen they know doesn't vote why in the world would that citizen think that the politician would spend any of his/her time on their problem?

If the above makes sense then those that do not vote should be educated in common sense (I think the above is common sense)

The young that can vote and don't get regularly screwed. At 18 or 19 they get conned into getting into a debt they can't even banco out of! (there are other way they get screwed as well). The poor get screwed ALL THE TIME! Still, they don't vote so why should their elected give a damn?

I know, in both cases the policians should. The fact, however, is that they really don't.


Edited by jgw (10/28/20 06:14 PM)

Top
#329816 - 10/28/20 06:35 PM Re: The Vote Rule [Re: jgw]
perotista Offline
member

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 1023
Would voting solve the problem? I don't think so. Both major parties owe their heart and soul to the moneyed folks, to corporations, wall street firms, lobbyist, special interest groups, mega money donors. One party actually embraces all of the above and the other does so with a wink and a nod. I'm going to talk bad about you now, but don't worry, I'll take care of you. That's where the two major parties get their tens and hundreds of millions of dollars from to run their organizations and campaigns.

An example, congress may raise taxes on all these folks, the tax rates that is. That makes all of us feel good, they're now going to pay their fair share. But congress will include many loopholes so their effective tax rate remains the same. Very few will ever look at the effective tax rate, just at the top rate or percentage of taxation.

You have only two choices in reality although some of us opt to vote third party on occasion. You end up voting for either overt or covert money. One party hides this fact better than the other.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

Top
#329817 - 10/28/20 07:01 PM Re: The Vote Rule [Re: perotista]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10601
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
I remember paper ballots, the counting was slow


California has been using paper ballots for years. Mail ballots are the same as in-person voting. They run them through scanners and get the totals in a few hours. Impossible to hack, and recountable.

California has about 1/5th the population of the US.

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >

Who's Online
0 registered (), 46 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Superfly, GreatNewsTonight, danarhea, RoughDraft274, CPWILL
6292 Registered Users
A2