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#330265 - 11/17/20 07:04 PM Problems .....
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3753
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
They figure there are now a couple million survivors of covid-19. If only 10% are long haulers that means that there are 200,000 people that have physical problems due to covid-19. The claims are that over half of the survivors experience problems and those problems last. This is just the tip of the iceberg. There are also 75,000,000 signed up for medicaid as well. Then there are 44,000,000 signed up for medicare as well. So, we have, right now, 119 people on socialized healthcare - RIGHT NOW! Now Biden says that he will make all Covid-19 related healthcare free as well. We have about 10 million infected, right now. If 10% go into the hospital their cost for treatment will be between $35,000.00 and $45,000.00 each. This means that gov will pay somewhere around $40,000,000,000 (will turn into a 40 billion dollar annual increase in our national debt). What this means is that our current healthcare costs close to 2 times what the rest of the world is paying and they are getting better outcomes as well!

My point, I think, is that we are well on our way to the socialization of our healthcare right now - we just don't know it and its being done on the sly for big bucks with no plan at all! If we don't do something we are either going to be broke, bankrupt, or have a lot of our population with no healthcare and huge debt. This brings up another problem. Does anybody think that this is even vaguely sustainable? Its really time that gov start figuring out how to fix this. The rest of the developed world seems to have worked it out and, now, its probably our time to do the same. We have to take control of the drug manufacturers. We don't have to socialize them, we just have to seriously regulate and control them. Medical technology too needs to be regulated and controlled. It is, basically, time to get control of our national greed and get on with saving the country before blood and bombs start going off all over the place.

This is not a socialist problem. This is a problem that will either get fixed or America will change dramatically as people simply get fed up with the national greed, uncaring politicians, and massive incompetence covered over by people who would rather deal with fairytales rather than reality and truth. Not solving the latter means that we failed and future is bleak. Not recognizing the problem is also failure and the future is bleak. This is, I think, a simple fact. What happens will be 'interesting'.

those who are fighting socialized healthcare are going to have to answer some simple questions. You know, things like, why do we pay twice as much for less healthcare than, say, Canada? Why do we pay a lot more for drugs? (sold for much less in places like Canada). Why, basically, are we forced to pay more for less? It makes no sense!

I am not sure how to fix any of this but I do know we should be, right now, defining these kinds of problems before they come alive and eat us all! (problems need to be seriously defined before they can be addressed and this stuff is not)


Edited by jgw (11/17/20 07:07 PM)

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#330273 - 11/17/20 09:50 PM Re: Problems ..... [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10601
Loc: North San Diego County
Huge Covid-19 medical costs --> Government pays --> has to collect more taxes = Socialized Medicine

We have actually just stumbled into single-payer, from circumstances beyond anybody's ability to fight. And the ironic thing is that it's all from Trump's incompetence. If he would have followed expert medical advice instead of prioritizing the economy, we would have had MUCH less Covid-19 costs.

So we all owe Trump kudos for giving us socialized medicine, at the expense of 200,000+ dead Americans. He always DID promise to give us "much better than Obamacare"!

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#330291 - 11/18/20 07:47 PM Re: Problems ..... [Re: pondering_it_all]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3753
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Actually its a lousy way to back into something that represents something like 19% of our entire economy, costs waaay too much, and barely controlled or regulated and simply is not as good as the results others are getting. To do it right, and bring the costs waaay down, we need some kind of plan, which we don't have right now.

Perhaps this is the way our dear leader, a previously life long Democrat, is going to give us universal healthcare. I doubt that but would believe it if he has decided to screw up that particular part of the economy (along with several others), thereby making sure that Biden will have something to do when he takes over.

Biden should start, right now, pointing out what Trump is doing right now and what he had done after he is gone. People forget, especially Democratic voters tend to forget. Hopefully, this time, nobody lets anybody forget. We have a mess, we know who made it and we should never forget.

Oh, I know, wishful thinking and not all that productive.

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#330312 - 11/19/20 09:37 PM Re: Problems ..... [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10601
Loc: North San Diego County
I doubt Trump was ever a Democrat or a Republican. He just was a publicity hound. Whoever got on TV the most, Trump wanted to pose with on camera. Evidence: His fixation on "ratings".

He never was for "the working man": Those were just rubes for his ripoff products or renters. He never was for the rich or Big Business because he saw them as competitors. His real political ideology was best portrayed by the TV interview where he bragged about his superiority and God-given right to grab beautiful women's genitals.

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#330313 - 11/19/20 10:47 PM Re: Problems ..... [Re: jgw]
perotista Offline
member

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 1023
Here's Trump's political party history.

Until 1987 Trump was a Democrat
From 1987-1999 he was a Republican
In 1999 Trump became an Independent
2000 to 2001 Trump was a member of the Reform Party
2001 to 2009 he was a Democrat again
2009 to 2011 he became a Republican
2011 to 2012 Trump was a registered Independent
2012 to present he became a Republican again.

Perhaps he had grand ideas about the presidency from the get go. He seems to have belonged to the party out of power. He was a Democrats throughout almost all of Reagan. A Republican during Bill Clinton. He even joined my tiny Reform Party in 2000 to run for its presidential nomination. When that failed he became a Democrat again during G.W. Bush, a Republican under Obama before becoming an independent and then a Republican again in 2012 so he could run for their nomination in 2016.

That's just my idea. But it is strange how Trump always seemed to become a member of the party who didn't hold the presidency. As for his political ideology, he really had none. Changing it to reflect whatever party he happened to be a member of.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#330321 - 11/20/20 04:03 AM Re: Problems ..... [Re: pondering_it_all]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7414
Loc: Highlands, Tx
He is easy to understand .... what do narcissists want the most? all the oxygen in the room
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

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#330380 - 11/22/20 04:18 PM Re: Problems ..... [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Online   content
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2523
Originally Posted By: jgw
They figure there are now a couple million survivors of covid-19. If only 10% are long haulers that means that there are 200,000 people that have physical problems due to covid-19. The claims are that over half of the survivors experience problems and those problems last. This is just the tip of the iceberg. There are also 75,000,000 signed up for medicaid as well. Then there are 44,000,000 signed up for medicare as well. So, we have, right now, 119 people on socialized healthcare - RIGHT NOW! Now Biden says that he will make all Covid-19 related healthcare free as well. We have about 10 million infected, right now. If 10% go into the hospital their cost for treatment will be between $35,000.00 and $45,000.00 each. This means that gov will pay somewhere around $40,000,000,000 (will turn into a 40 billion dollar annual increase in our national debt). What this means is that our current healthcare costs close to 2 times what the rest of the world is paying and they are getting better outcomes as well!

My point, I think, is that we are well on our way to the socialization of our healthcare right now - we just don't know it and its being done on the sly for big bucks with no plan at all! If we don't do something we are either going to be broke, bankrupt, or have a lot of our population with no healthcare and huge debt. This brings up another problem. Does anybody think that this is even vaguely sustainable? Its really time that gov start figuring out how to fix this. The rest of the developed world seems to have worked it out and, now, its probably our time to do the same. We have to take control of the drug manufacturers. We don't have to socialize them, we just have to seriously regulate and control them. Medical technology too needs to be regulated and controlled. It is, basically, time to get control of our national greed and get on with saving the country before blood and bombs start going off all over the place.

This is not a socialist problem. This is a problem that will either get fixed or America will change dramatically as people simply get fed up with the national greed, uncaring politicians, and massive incompetence covered over by people who would rather deal with fairytales rather than reality and truth. Not solving the latter means that we failed and future is bleak. Not recognizing the problem is also failure and the future is bleak. This is, I think, a simple fact. What happens will be 'interesting'.

those who are fighting socialized healthcare are going to have to answer some simple questions. You know, things like, why do we pay twice as much for less healthcare than, say, Canada? Why do we pay a lot more for drugs? (sold for much less in places like Canada). Why, basically, are we forced to pay more for less? It makes no sense!

I am not sure how to fix any of this but I do know we should be, right now, defining these kinds of problems before they come alive and eat us all! (problems need to be seriously defined before they can be addressed and this stuff is not)


All of which you say I agree with.
I would point out that a well reasoned proposal was on the ballot which caused millions to rally around the candidate who was seriously proposing them in the recent presidential primary. A candidate that was viewed as to old, not having the right credentials, having the wrong supporters, etc, etc.
You’ll have to forgive me if I wonder how sincere you are to these issues.

The argument that the candidates platform could not have won, though he was winning at the time, in spite of unprecedented Dem party vote suppression on full display, seems to have made the election of Biden palatable for some people.
Installing Biden, who’s vowed to veto any universal health proposals, as a preferred outcome to the other candidate but your now arguing for something to be done on healthcare is a little like the proverbial barn door and horse scenario.

I think our current lack of humane healthcare will be viewed as a positive to those people that only matter. A cheap real estate buying opportunity for some to be sure.

I see nothing in the Democratic parties preferred presidential candidate’s record that would indicate his being against that type of opportunity.


Edited by chunkstyle (11/22/20 04:22 PM)

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#330386 - 11/22/20 09:56 PM Re: Problems ..... [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10601
Loc: North San Diego County
Trump has always wanted to be the top banana, so he's been in the party out of power because the party in power already has a top banana: The President. It's simple oppositional defiant disorder, or Trump Being Trump" according to his fans.

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#330497 - Today at 07:50 PM Re: Problems ..... [Re: chunkstyle]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3753
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I continue to believe that healthcare needs to be sold in a different way. Nobody want to change their healthcare as its too dangerous and a mess right now and the fear is what government can do to screw it up even more. I believe that there are a lot of people who simply do not trust their own government which is considered greedy, incompetent, bought and paid for, and dangerous.

Anybody who give it any thought will, I think, remember when they had doubts themselves. And, now, they want to screw around with healthcare? Really?

There are, however, other avenues. We spend, right now, close to a trillion a year on healthcare. This includes what we pay and what the government pays. We are paying, right now, approximately 2 times what other countries are paying and they are getting better healthcare than we. My thought is that is where we should be talking, right now. In other words, we don't want to fix it so much has stop wasting money on a system that is failing. Once you get that started there are lots of places to go. The trick will be not selling change so much as selling finding out what the hell is going on!

I know, its being sneaky. The trick is to start with something nobody in their right mind would fight. Nobody trusts gov to do the right thing so gov spends more time pointing out what could be done if we had the will and what those results would be. Drug companies, right now, are selling, with success, medicines that will kill you! We see the ads every day! But the message isn't death its all the good that its going to do! If they can sell death than one would think that we could have a government that we don't trust nor understand.

We have had almost 4 years of a president who is simply not competent. Most understand that. On top of that we have a president that has been whining about how bad government is for almost 4 years! He has worked, incredibly hard, at destroying any and all faith we used to have in government and it continues! We also seem to have a government that has taken a page out of the Hillary book and simply does not fight back. When, for instance, did you see any kind of show that demonstrates and tells citizens what the hell they are doing and why? The answer, unfortunately, is the Hillary move - ie. stand above it all, never fight back, its all gonna go away. Sorry, that simply does not work!

In theory gov owns PBS. PBS is in constant trouble because gov doesn't really support PBS all that much. How about this, give PBS a little more money to produce shows that tells, educates and reveals what the hell its doing? Start small, do it right and it might even work! I suspect the trick will be to get professional TV show experts to work on this one - they understand and know what the American public likes to see! How about "The Snopes Show" which explains the difference between truth and non-truth just for beginners. Doesn't have to be all about politics but covers most.

Just a thought...........


Edited by jgw (Today at 07:57 PM)

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#330501 - Today at 08:40 PM Re: Problems ..... [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10601
Loc: North San Diego County
"Finding out what's going on" is mostly an excuse to do nothing. There are plenty of people who know what's going on in any aspect of government, health care, immigration, etc. Most of us just don't have the time, interest, or attention span to know everything in any of those topics. That's why we have experts, many of whom are civil servants in the appropriate government department. The days that any one person can know everything in a field are long gone.

On the other hand, a Snopes PBS show is a great idea. Make it sexy and entertaining enough and a lot of people would watch it. Of course, it would have to compete with Hannity's Fantasy Fun Hour on Fox.

Come January 20th, a lot of Q followers are going to have to deal with destruction of their belief system, when their hero stops being President and essentially loses the battle against the pedophile communist Democrats. I think we are going to see anti-depressant and tranquilizer prescription numbers shoot up dramatically around then.

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