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#330495 - 11/28/20 06:26 PM Re: Progressives Can’t Find Anyone in Biden's Cabinet to Be Mad About—Yet [Re: pdx rick]
perotista Offline
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Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 1139
If you're talking about just Democratic voters, here's the breakdown.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20...ocratic-voters/

I suppose you would equate very liberal to progressive. I really don't know.

Now if you go with all of America. you have the following: 37% of Americans identified as conservative, 35% as moderate and 24% as liberal.

https://www.axios.com/political-ideology...5cceb1c1e4.html

Voting habits are another matter. Which I place into a different category. You can't place all conservatives within the Republican Party, all liberals within the Democratic Party or all moderates as independents. It doesn't work that way.
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It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#330496 - 11/28/20 07:30 PM Re: Progressives Can’t Find Anyone in Biden's Cabinet to Be Mad About—Yet [Re: perotista]
jgw Offline
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Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3875
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
The problem is that its not quite that simple. The groups you laid out can also be broken down. Conservatives but what kind? Religious? Fiscal? Social? Etc? Liberal can also get broken down into Social Democrats, Real Democrats, Progressives, Etc.

Its the same for them all and it can get very confusing. When it comes to Democrats I kinda prefer left leaning folks willing to sit down and dicker with one another to reach consensus. However, then we have the purists - my way or the highway and reason doesn't enter at all.

My suspicion is that The United States is going to remain a two party nation (all quibbles, and arguments aside). One leans left and one leans right. The only real questions involve who will dicker and who sticks to the highway or my way folks which
determines what happens. I think Biden will dicker until his own party turns on him like a mad dog.

My fond hope is that we can get a congress willing to dicker. When that happens we get legislation and both sides have agreed on so extreme stuff doesn't happen and everybody gets a say. I am not convinced that is possible whilst Trump remains but, when he is no longer president I think his sway will falter (hopefully).

Again - in the fullness of time!

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#330500 - 11/28/20 08:32 PM Re: Progressives Can’t Find Anyone in Biden's Cabinet to Be Mad About—Yet [Re: jgw]
perotista Offline
member

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 1139
Originally Posted By: jgw
The problem is that its not quite that simple. The groups you laid out can also be broken down. Conservatives but what kind? Religious? Fiscal? Social? Etc? Liberal can also get broken down into Social Democrats, Real Democrats, Progressives, Etc.

Its the same for them all and it can get very confusing. When it comes to Democrats I kinda prefer left leaning folks willing to sit down and dicker with one another to reach consensus. However, then we have the purists - my way or the highway and reason doesn't enter at all.

My suspicion is that The United States is going to remain a two party nation (all quibbles, and arguments aside). One leans left and one leans right. The only real questions involve who will dicker and who sticks to the highway or my way folks which
determines what happens. I think Biden will dicker until his own party turns on him like a mad dog.

My fond hope is that we can get a congress willing to dicker. When that happens we get legislation and both sides have agreed on so extreme stuff doesn't happen and everybody gets a say. I am not convinced that is possible whilst Trump remains but, when he is no longer president I think his sway will falter (hopefully).

Again - in the fullness of time!


That's called compromise and playing the game of give and take. Something that ended with Reid and McConnell. What we need is a complete change in the senate. I like the word "dicker." That's what Lott and Daschle, what Mitchell and Dole and even Baker and Byrd did.

I'm not worried about Pelosi, she's political savvy enough to know when to "dicker" and when not. Now this being said, here is an interesting article about Biden and his cabinet.

Top Contenders for Biden's Cabinet Draw Fire From All Sides

https://news.yahoo.com/top-contenders-bidens-cabinet-draw-165657150.html

So much depends on Georgia's two senate runoffs. Then again it may be the progressive wing of the Democratic Party that stops Biden from having the folks around him he wants around him. Time will tell.

I always believed any president ought to have the people he wants in his cabinet.

One other thing, I always considered myself a conservative. Ever since Goldwater. But a traditional conservative which has nothing to do with today's social conservatives or neo-conservatives or any other type of conservatism today.

A traditional conservative and a classic liberal have much in common and neither label fits what conservatism or liberalism mean today.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#330502 - 11/28/20 08:41 PM Re: Progressives Can’t Find Anyone in Biden's Cabinet to Be Mad About—Yet [Re: chunkstyle]
pdx rick Offline
Member
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43762
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
...To bad he turned out to be a black Mitt Romney.

Mittens never had to deal with paranoid narratives and conspiracies that he wasn't American and illegitimate to hold office by racist Rightwingers.

Nor has Mitten's intelligence ever been questioned or was it ever suggested that Mittens didn't actually write his books, but a ghost writer did it for him.

Hmm
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#330507 - 11/28/20 11:35 PM Re: Progressives Can’t Find Anyone in Biden's Cabinet to Be Mad About—Yet [Re: pdx rick]
chunkstyle Offline
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Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2675
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
...To bad he turned out to be a black Mitt Romney.

Mittens never had to deal with paranoid narratives and conspiracies that he wasn't American and illegitimate to hold office by racist Rightwingers.

Nor has Mitten's intelligence ever been questioned or was it ever suggested that Mittens didn't actually write his books, but a ghost writer did it for him.

Hmm


Ok. Nice things can’t happen so long as there’s opposition to it. On the other hand, bad things just keep trucking. Got it.


Edited by chunkstyle (11/28/20 11:36 PM)

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#330508 - 11/29/20 01:16 AM Re: Progressives Can’t Find Anyone in Biden's Cabinet to Be Mad About—Yet [Re: chunkstyle]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43762
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
...To bad he turned out to be a black Mitt Romney.

Mittens never had to deal with paranoid narratives and conspiracies that he wasn't American and illegitimate to hold office by racist Rightwingers.

Nor has Mitten's intelligence ever been questioned or was it ever suggested that Mittens didn't actually write his books, but a ghost writer did it for him.

Hmm


Ok. Nice things can’t happen so long as there’s opposition to it. On the other hand, bad things just keep trucking. Got it.

Wut? crazy
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#330509 - 11/29/20 01:19 AM Re: Progressives Can’t Find Anyone in Biden's Cabinet to Be Mad About—Yet [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43762
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
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#330510 - 11/29/20 02:36 PM Re: Progressives Can’t Find Anyone in Biden's Cabinet to Be Mad About—Yet [Re: pdx rick]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2675
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
...To bad he turned out to be a black Mitt Romney.

Mittens never had to deal with paranoid narratives and conspiracies that he wasn't American and illegitimate to hold office by racist Rightwingers.

Nor has Mitten's intelligence ever been questioned or was it ever suggested that Mittens didn't actually write his books, but a ghost writer did it for him.

Hmm


Ok. Nice things can’t happen so long as there’s opposition to it. On the other hand, bad things just keep trucking. Got it.

Wut? crazy


Libs keep using the excuse that nothing of substance that broadly benefits citizens can happen so long as theirs them big ol nasty republicans, bigots and conspiracies. So I guess whenever policies that benefitted ordinary Americans broadly (S.S., Medicare, unemployment Insurance, etc) we’re passed, there weren’t any of those obstacles?

Conversely, is the presence of bigots, Republicans, conspiracies the reason why Dems pass bloated military budgets, instigate a new nuclear arms race, expand foriegn wars, pass punishing laws that mostly impact the poor, expand government surveillance, persecute whistle blowers and journalists, fail to prosecute white collar criminals While giving them trillions of dollars for their misdeeds?

Just asking as the lowering of expectations and narrowing of possibilities for ordinary Americans has begun while Biden the Restorer stocks his cabinet with war profiteers and crooks.



Edited by chunkstyle (11/29/20 04:38 PM)

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#330511 - 11/29/20 02:37 PM Re: Progressives Can’t Find Anyone in Biden's Cabinet to Be Mad About—Yet [Re: pdx rick]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2675
I agree with Salons critique , yes indeedy.


Edited by chunkstyle (11/29/20 04:51 PM)

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#330513 - 11/29/20 07:41 PM Re: Progressives Can’t Find Anyone in Biden's Cabinet to Be Mad About—Yet [Re: perotista]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3875
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
The compromise argument has always amused me. The problem is that compromise is not all that necessary. So, take rape. A Democrat, and a Republican decide to fix rape as rape is bad and rape is also illegal but it still happens. I think both parties can agree with that? So, now the problem is how to deal with it. Both sides will probably have solutions, some of which are agreed to and some of which are not. In some cases there may be a lot of discussion on which solutions will be used. In any case, eventually everybody will get their say. Some will have their ideas in the legislation and some will not. No place, in the above, did I say anybody had to compromise. "Compromise" tends to include somebody "sacrificing" for the common good. That is just baloney. The trick is in the definition of the problem and then discussion over what can be done and what gets included in the legislation. That's it! I am not somebody voting for something even though they don't like it but it should never be necessary. Both sides should have ideas the other can agree to. If one side rejects every solution by the other side then nothing gets done. The side that rejected should be noted so that everybody knows where the stood and what they stood against.

That, to my way of thinking, is how it should work. No compromise just discussion, acceptance or nothing. Its interesting, when there is nothing the problem is, usually, not over getting something done so much as somehow being in a competition where somebody wins and somebody loses. When that happens it should be fully covered by neutrals stating facts. I also don't think winning and losing should be in the process as the end goal is simply to fix something that needs it and that was agreed by both parties in the beginning!

'Compromise' = Bullsh*t!

Oh, while I am against compromise I am for 'deals' and 'trades' Which goes something like; "if you do this I will do that", sort of thing.


Edited by jgw (11/29/20 07:44 PM)

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