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#330684 - 12/11/20 06:17 PM Covid Vaccine
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3934
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I am having a problem with Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine​ and the necessity for -70 degrees. We have been told that the vaccine is stored in groups of 1000 shots. I am not sure this means its stored in 1000 shots or two shots. I think, in this case, its 1000. Anyway. The storage is good for 5 days and then the vaccine is no longer good. The storage can only be opened 3 times before it fails. However, we are also told that once the 1000 are taken out of their storage they have 4/5 hours before they go bad. This means, basicially, that whoever is doing the vaccinations have to give 1000 vaccinations in less than 4/5 hours. They also showed, on tv, tests of just how long it takes to get all the information and vaccinate. They determined that it was between 30 and 45 minutes per shot. (betcha you see where I am going?)

So, they gotta give 1000 vaccinations in 4/5 hours. It takes, say 30 minutes to give a single shot or 2 shots per hour. This would also mean that there would be a LOT of vaccine trashed unless there were a lot of people giving vaccinations! If, for instance, there were 100 folks giving vaccinations it would mean that they could, in four hours, give something like 800 vaccinations? (not sure of my math).

In any case, it seems there is a little problem. My own thought is that I had to have heard that wrong. Just thought I would post this so that somebody would straighten me out.

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#330685 - 12/11/20 06:55 PM Re: Covid Vaccine [Re: jgw]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7484
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Since you're speculating, I'll do a little myself.

I bet all of these folks have already done the same thought process ... for obvious reasons, as you allude. I therefore believe they will have solved the speculative problems of your concern. I think I heard (and may be mistaken) that each vial contains 5 shots, so they would be giving 5 at a time. This suggests they will "pre-load" the shot line, so it's boom boom boom.

I think what you saw in England was more the photo op, than the entire process. Imagine the optics of a 90 year old with stiff upper lip touting the benefits of a little shot in the arm and William Shakespeare saying the shot is "Much ado about nothing".

I am hoping all the Trump supporters will forego their turn, because it is fake pandemic, vaccine, etc, which will allow me to move up to number 45,376,228 in line.
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#330696 - 12/12/20 05:20 AM Re: Covid Vaccine [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10874
Loc: North San Diego County
It has to be stored at dry ice temperatures for long term storage, but you can just put those trays in a -80 freezer (very old technology) or add more dry ice to your styrofoam-insulated cooler. You can transport several trays of 195 vials in each cooler, or you can put a single vial in a cooler with some dry ice. All they need to do is plan how many they want at any location on a certain day.

The stuff about opening the cooler three times, is if you don't have any dry ice to add. Dry ice is available at most supermarkets. Before starting vaccinations, you thaw some in a refrigerator. Those vials have to be used within a couple of days.

So people will need appointments, and they can fill in any paperwork in advance (online or in person). The actual vaccination rate will be MUCH faster, like one every 30 seconds per vaccinator. Then the patients should wait around for about 15 minutes to see if they have an allergic reaction. This is SOP for any vaccination. It could actually be even faster if they used those air-powered injectors.

And that's the worst case, with the Pfizer vaccine. Moderna is stabile in a -20 freezer, and last several days in a refrigerator or normal ice chest. Astra Zeneca vaccine only needs a fridge or ice chest.

When they setup appointments, I bet they recruit standbys who would have to wait for later groups, but would come in early and get any vaccine left over at the end of the day by no-shows.

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#330702 - 12/12/20 02:51 PM Re: Covid Vaccine [Re: jgw]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43808
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

Why don't the average American get steroid dexamethasone and the antiviral medication remdesivir for Covid like the incompetent orange Fatass and Rudy Colludy did? Why did 293,000 Americans need to die?

Hmm
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#330707 - 12/12/20 05:44 PM Re: Covid Vaccine [Re: pdx rick]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3934
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Here are the current covid-19 treatment guidelines. If this is true then, I suspect, those treatments are being used now for everybody.

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#330709 - 12/12/20 06:17 PM Re: Covid Vaccine [Re: pondering_it_all]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3934
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
so, there are probable waste of vaccine unless they are making standby's standard and they probably will be. All this seems to be a learning curve due, mainly, on the low temps necessary for the Pfizer vaccine.

I think my main problem was 4 hour thing. Now, I think I read that was really 24 hours. Still, all these vaccines are not stored individually so one they start they have to use all the vaccine in each vial. 5 for Pfizer vials and 10 doses for moderna vials.

Its interesting. Most of my numbers were just flat out wrong. I think I got it now! Its gonna get pretty interesting pretty quick!


Edited by jgw (12/12/20 06:37 PM)

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#330711 - 12/12/20 09:23 PM Re: Covid Vaccine [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10874
Loc: North San Diego County
It certainly does take a lot of organization, infrastructure, and people to get 300 million people vaccinated, twice! With some strict timing requirements for the second vaccination. Fortunately, all that has to be worked out and then replicated for every site. So the actual problem is how you do that for one day, at one site. Then you do the same thing at every other site, every day.

The big problem is priority. I think the simplest method is to give all the health care workers the first round. Pretty easy since a lot of them are already at the place where vaccinations will be given. Then just say everybody over 100 is next. 99 on the day after that, etc. Give elder care workers vaccinations on the day their patients get them, just to make it easier.

That method makes the first vaccinations easy, and they get a bigger cohort on each successive day so it is easy to see where they need more resources. It also puts 16 year olds at the end, so we have more data on kids getting the vaccine.

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#330732 - 12/13/20 07:37 PM Re: Covid Vaccine [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3934
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I think that the plan is to take care of all the medical workers and then al "rest homes" including staff. Then everybody else. Seems fair to me. We now have over 616 cases in the county (population is 77,000 with 515 recovered, and 1 in the hospital) We have had 4 deaths (everybody was over 80 years old). We are also experiencing an increase in cases and infections, most of which were due to thanksgiving and family stuff. The county will be receiving 970 vaccines along with every other county in Washington state. I have no idea how many healthcare workers there are but there are a LOT!

One of my main problems is how many vaccinations they are going to have to distribute right now. I have heard, on TV, anything from one-hundred million to over two-hundred million. I am not convinced anybody really knows.

I do know that getting the vaccination thing done is going to provide us all with a LOT of entertainment as well as thrills to do with competence and also including the old "Who's on first, What's on second, etc). All that being said I have faith that they will get it done and I really hope there are not too many screw-ups.


Edited by jgw (12/13/20 07:41 PM)

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#330737 - 12/14/20 11:05 AM Re: Covid Vaccine [Re: jgw]
Ujest Shurly Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 715
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
Yes, there will be some waste of COVID vaccine as there is with all vaccines. The bottling of a vaccine is designed to reduce that waste. Each shipment of a thousand doses of vaccine is actually several hundred little vials and only a single vial is removed at a time. A single vile may contain several shots worth of vaccine. With how precious COVID vaccine is I would think each vial is one shot.


First Covid-19 vaccines...

That little vial is probably one dose.


My two pennies, this fine Monday morning.


EDIT: Zooming in on that vial, that is five ( 5 ) doses of vaccine.


Edited by Ujest Shurly (12/14/20 11:08 AM)
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#330740 - 12/14/20 04:27 PM Re: Covid Vaccine [Re: pondering_it_all]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7484
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Just watched some video of vaccinations and it looked awfully slow to me. I would have thought they wanted to do this as fast as possible to get to the non-healthcare high risk folks.

Then again ... I am not going to any medical convention.
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ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Trump was dumped .... but he won't leave

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