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#331731 - 01/25/21 02:25 PM Re: Post-Election Mischief [Re: Greger]
perotista Offline
member

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 1198
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
Hillary Clinton compared to Rump?


Tat, Pero is a single issue voter...his entire ideology is based on his perceived treatment of the military by politicians. He imagines that Madam Clinton was rude to the boys in uniform as Bill Clinton's first lady, thus disqualifying herself for the office of President.

I spent a lifetime in residential construction, I base my opinions about politicos entirely on how they treat workers, are they pro union? Education? Healthcare? Living wages? Safe workplaces?

Or are they just hoping to make your boss richer?

Greger, that may be, maybe not though. I always ask the question would this country be better off once a candidate leaves office than when a candidate first enters office. I really don't have a litmus test on the issues.

In the case of 2016, I came to the conclusion that this country would be worst off no matter who won between Trump and Clinton. Hence my vote against both of them which 9 million others did the same.

Now I don't belong to either major party, when pushed for a party affiliation I will eventually tell them the Reform Party although no longer active in Georgia. I'm a swing voter, which some refer to as an independent. But looking back on 2016, at independents, I'm wasn't alone in not liking Hillary Clinton. Question 10. Favorability of Candidates – Hillary Clinton, 27% of all independents view her favorably, 70% unfavorably. Question 11. Favorability of Candidates – Donald Trump, he wasn't liked by independent either, 40% favorable, 57% unfavorable. Hence Trump won the independent vote and the white house.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/l37rosbwjp/econTabReport_lv.pdf

Now that wasn't a surprise to me at all. Back in Feb 2016 a poll showed 56% of all Americans wanted the Democrats to nominate someone other than Hillary Clinton. The Democrats didn't listen to America as a whole, which was their right. Democrats nominate the Democratic Candidate, not all Americans. But all Americans determine who wins in the general.

I firmly believe almost any other Democrat, alive or dead, would have trounced Trump in 2016. I know it's hard for any avid supporter of a candidate to understand how much their candidate was disliked by other Americans. Their avid supporters won't even acknowledge it. They can't see it, they're blind in their support.

I like the way a friend of mine summed up the 2016 presidential election, We elected the devil we didn't know, Trump, a businessman, a TV reality show host, no one knew how he would govern over the devil we knew, everyone knew exactly how Hillary would govern. We threw the dice in electing the devil we didn't know over the devil we did.

Perhaps you have it there, a vast majority of Americans viewing each major party candidate as the devil of some sorts except their avid supporters.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#331733 - 01/25/21 04:38 PM Re: Post-Election Mischief [Re: perotista]
TatumAH Online   content
journeyman

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 769
Loc: Upstate NY
Why do they hate Hillary so much? A psychologist's view

It's very hard to defend the case that the country would be worse off if Hillary was elected, regardless of unfavorable polls. No politician has ever had the kind of continuous virulent attacks, over decades than Hillary! Repeat the lies long enough and they become truth to the, how should I phrase it, less intellectually informed populace.

Having a Black President, who did pretty well with the GOP mess he inherited, promoted the merging of white nationalist/racists and threatened misogynists, that now threaten the democracy of the Nation! Maybe a President H. Clinton would have promoted misogyny, but probably not racism, but I could be wrong, after all Bill did claim to be the first Black President!

Quote:
It really does beg an answer doesn’t it? The hatred towards Hillary Clinton does not on its face make sense. If we consider how thoroughly Mrs. Clinton’s background has been scrutinized in efforts to discredit her, what is remarkable is how little scandalous material her opponents have found.

She is clearly not a “crooked” politician and using a personal email account does not rank up there with the great scandals of Presidential politics.

But regardless of how one feels about what her opponents do allege none of it is the kind of stuff that would be expected to generate the intensity of the hatred they express towards her. And yet people so hate Hillary Clinton that almost half of all Americans are voting for a man who is widely considered the most unqualified and even dangerous person ever to run for the Presidency.
So just how do we explain it?


Quote:
As I explained in my book, State of Confusion: Political Manipulation and the Assault on the American Mind (St. Martin’s Press, 2008) if we threaten people in the areas of sexual identity, then swamp them with feelings of envy and paranoia we can do a pretty good job of disabling their mental apparatus. They then become irrational and vulnerable to a demagogue who appears strong and promises to deliver them from their panic. This is what has been done to the American political right.

The American mind has been under assault in all three of these areas, and Hillary’s candidacy has become the perfect lightening rod for the trifecta of sexual confusion, envy, and paranoia that is assaulting it. As a society we are not paying enough attention to the combined impact of these forces especially the impact they are having on the most psychologically vulnerable.


Quote:
Of course, for a nation in which millions of white men are terrified that to lose their gun is to lose their masculine security, having a woman President is very threatening. This is especially true when they have just learned, quite conclusively, that an African American man can make a better President than they can. White men who are hating Hillary so irrationally are terrified that they will lose the significant scaffolding that artificially inflated and discriminatory sexual stereotypes play in their very core self-definition. The more destabilized they feel by this, the worse the problem becomes.

Losing special status is painful, unpleasant, and shamefully exposing. Naturally, most men who feel this way do not acknowledge or even understand the feeling. It becomes an inchoate feeling of dislike for Hillary, a feeling-state awaiting explanation. With millions of American males needing to explain their hatred of her to themselves, any alleged flaw will do, real or imagined, to “explain” their visceral reaction. Thus, whatever is thrown against Hillary tends to stick. No politician in our lifetime has had more false or trivial accusations stick against her than Hillary Clinton.
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Except that it's lonesome work
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#331740 - 01/25/21 06:53 PM Re: Post-Election Mischief [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3934
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Its really pretty simple. Hillary allowed people to lie about her, and accuse her of stuff for about 40 years without once defending herself. I consider her a living saint! The Republicans, on the other hand, worked very hard to demonize her. They are the true experts at demonization. Not only that but, over the years, the lies and accusations got more and more crazy. She now, apparently, eats babies.

I think the real question is "who has been demonized by the Republicans?" (there should be a list someplace)

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#331749 - 01/25/21 09:47 PM Re: Post-Election Mischief [Re: NW Ponderer]
perotista Offline
member

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 1198
For most independents elections are beauty contests. They vote for who they like and against who they don't. In 2016 it was simply obnoxious over aloof and elitist, although indies didn't like nor want either one.

In 2020 it was the adult in the room over obnoxious. But I think will all the excuses I see here for Hillary proves that an avid supporter of any candidate can never admit their candidate was disliked and unwanted.

Perhaps another point, if the Republicans demonized Hillary to the point Trump could beat her, they tried the same demonization on Biden. It worked in the case of Hillary, but failed miserably on Biden.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#331755 - 01/26/21 12:40 AM Re: Post-Election Mischief [Re: NW Ponderer]
perotista Offline
member

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 1198
How Trump leaves office. From gallup.

Last Trump Job Approval 34%; Average Is Record-Low 41%

https://news.gallup.com/poll/328637/last...ign=syndication
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#331845 - 01/31/21 04:04 PM Re: Post-Election Mischief [Re: NW Ponderer]
perotista Offline
member

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 1198
Interesting things happening in Georgia.

GOP faces electoral conundrum in Georgia, new poll suggests

https://news.yahoo.com/gop-faces-elector...mp;uh_test=1_04

It seems as of the moment, Republican candidates that back Trump would win the GOP primaries, but lose the independent vote and the election. Candidates that opposed Trump would win the independent vote and the general, but wouldn't have a chance to get that far losing in the primaries. All subject to change in the future.

Now interesting change from when Trump was president to now with Biden as president among independents and impeachment. 57% of Georgia independents were in favor of the House's impeachment while Trump was president, that dropped to just 33.7% of independents today. 64.4% oppose the impeachment today. Indies wanted Trump gone, he's gone so they don't really care what happens in the trial.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/18-5_yuxBchVLTyYa4jD4VNT25aEFedlP/view

Now I wonder if that pertains or trend is nationwide? Among independents, not the avid pro and anti Trumpers, Democrats and Republicans.

Two things here, while Trump was president 57% of all Americans thought he should be convicted and removed from office. Today with Trump gone and Biden president that is down to 51% who think Trump should be convicted. Independents are also dropping. Whereas when Trump was president 55% of independents favored conviction and removal. Today 42% favor convictions, 43% do not, 15% don't care, Trump is gone.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-e...l-idUSKBN29R2M9

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/ld46rgtdlz/econTabReport.pdf

One last thing, Biden's job approval, it's early, doesn't mean much but 51% approve, 44% disapprove. Among independents who decide elections 44% approve, 33% disapprove, 23% not sure.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#331847 - 01/31/21 06:39 PM Re: Post-Election Mischief [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43808
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


...from last night's SNL: BLUEGeorgia



smile
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#331852 - 01/31/21 08:59 PM Re: Post-Election Mischief [Re: NW Ponderer]
perotista Offline
member

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 1198
Georgia was a blue state from the civil war until 2002 when we elected our first ever Republican governor and state legislature. Now it seems we're reverting back to blue status after a 20 year absents.

I'd say until the late 1990's almost all of our elections were decided in the Democratic Primary. The general election was just a formality.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#331854 - 01/31/21 09:40 PM Re: Post-Election Mischief [Re: perotista]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17694
Loc: Florida
But Georgia has also always been a conservative state. The democrats elected by Georgians are all moderately conservative. No Bernie's or AOCs in the mix. Sensible folks though, and not folks to fall prey to scammers from New York City.
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Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#331871 - 02/01/21 01:02 AM Re: Post-Election Mischief [Re: NW Ponderer]
Irked Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 3726
Loc: Somewhere out in left field
Anyone who affiliates with any* political party are automatically responsible for every policy, every utterance and every idea of each of the most radical members** of that party.

*Except, of course, the American Republican Party were no member is even responsible for what they have just done or said, much less the actions of anyone else. Here, as always, the person questioning a Republican in any but the most friendly manner must look deep inside themselves and learn to come to grips with the evil rot they will find.

**Except, of course, the American Democratic Party were every part member is also responsible for non-members who caucus with them or happen to share at least one policy goal.



Edited by Irked (02/01/21 01:37 AM)
Edit Reason: Added 2nd caveat.
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Coulda tripped out easy, but I've changed my ways - Donovan

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