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#332695 - 02/22/21 02:08 PM Re: Another reason for impeachment [Re: logtroll]
perotista Offline
member

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 1198
Politics wise, I take the issues one at a time and make up my mind where I stand on them by myself. Perhaps I'm more conservative than liberal or maybe the other way around depending the issue. Most issues don't bother me much, in other words I don't get all hot and bothered by them.

Now it's easy to look back at something in the past with future and knowing eyes. It's quite different making decisions when the event happened with no knowledge of the future. 2016 was that way. But the fact remains that both candidates chosen by both major parties were disliked and unwanted by a majority of Americans. Just because one party likes a candidate or thinks their candidate is the best since sex and peanut butter, doesn't mean the majority of Americans think the same. They don't. I realize that and I don't go around condemning them for having different points of view.

I also have no need to go around defending and making excuses for the candidates or reasons why they lost. I let the numbers tell me that. I think personality decided the last two election more than anything else. Then there is a long string of election decided via charisma. You'd be surprised about the number of folks who don't know where the candidates stand on certain issues unless those issue effect them personally. I'd throw in likability as another factor in deciding elections.

With the lone exception of 2016, the candidate that was like more as a person regardless of what one thought or viewed their policies or stances on the issues won since 1976 when this question was first asked. But in 2016 Hillary was liked by just 2 points more of all Americans than Trump was, 38-36. which showed when Hillary won the popular vote. The lack of both being unliked by America as a whole also shown when 9 million voters decided to vote against both, 6% of all of those who voted, 12% of all independents who voted. Who knows how many potential voters said to Hades with it and stayed home because they disliked and didn't want neither one?

2020 was different, Biden was well liked as a person, Trump still wasn't, Biden won. Obama was well liked as a person, he won twice. so too was G.W. Bush liked as a person, as was Bill Clinton and Ronald Reagan. all won twice.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#332697 - 02/22/21 03:53 PM Re: Another reason for impeachment [Re: perotista]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17694
Loc: Florida
So generally speaking you vote for who you like best. I vote entirely on the issues and for who best represents my views. That includes partisan stances on the various issues. Third party candidates are nothing more than a vanity vote in my view as I tend to want to advance my own agenda (social democracy) and a vote for them is a vote cast into the void.

Healthcare, education, living wages. All at least partially supported by the blue team, all opposed by the red team. Hence...blue team gets my vote. I'm not a team member, not even a fan, I don't have to be, I'm just a left leaning independent with an eye towards the future.

I don't want to "take my country back"

I want to take it forward.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#332709 - 02/22/21 11:27 PM Re: Another reason for impeachment [Re: logtroll]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10874
Loc: North San Diego County
Both candidates were disliked in 2016. I agree. But one candidate was disliked because of a lot of nonsense made up about her over the years by the opposing Party, while the other candidate was disliked because of things he actually said and did. One was well qualified, having served as a Senator and Secretary of State. The other was totally incompetent, claiming to be a great businessman but he bankrupted two casinos and most of his business ventures failed at the expense of other people.

The real problem was not so much with the candidates, but with the judgement of the voters. They could not tell good from evil, right from wrong, competence from incompetence.

Looks like Hillary's biggest defect was in being female: She couldn't be aggressive, because a lot of people thought that was improper for a lady. She couldn't be non-aggressive, because a lot of people thought that showed weakness. Often the very same people!

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#332729 - 02/23/21 01:58 PM Re: Another reason for impeachment [Re: logtroll]
perotista Offline
member

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 1198
I don't think it was the fact Hillary was a woman as to the reason she lost. It had more to do with her coming across as an elitist, aloof, a know it all who practiced a do what I say and not as I do attitude. In plain English, she looked really fake and non-sincere. Trump on the other hand, having a personality very few liked outside of his avid supporters came across an anomaly no one had ever seen before running for the presidency being so obnoxious and in your face. But no one knew how Trump would govern, everyone knew exactly how Hillary would. It was time to throw the dice and go with the unknown over the known. No more politics as usual so to speak.

Hillary caused her own defeat by ceding the campaign trail to Trump. The media coverage was one sided, Trump out there calling into morning shows everyday, saying outrageous things getting top billing, the top story on every news show. Hillary basically hide outside of going on shows that were 100% behind her like the View.

It's is impossible to get any Hillary supporter to admit she caused her own defeat with her very inept campaign strategy along with many other things. There's always a ton of excuses. I suppose that is normal.

As for voting, I don't think I have a political agenda. I just want competent, able leadership. Leadership I'm comfortable with and think is good for the country as a whole. Not just one or the other party's base. For America as a whole which puts me at odds with those on both sides of the aisle. I liked Biden, always have ever since he was a senator. He was one always willing to work across the aisle when he could. I disliked Trump, so I voted for Biden in hopes of a return to a more saner type of leadership.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#332731 - 02/23/21 03:46 PM Re: Another reason for impeachment [Re: perotista]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17694
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Hillary caused her own defeat by ceding the campaign trail to Trump.


Let me point out once again that Hillary won the election by 3 Million votes.

Hillary was not defeated by the will of the people, was not defeated because she ceded anything to Trump, was not defeated because she was a woman.

Fact is she was not defeated at all.

Trump was appointed president due simply to the geographic locations of the minority of Americans who voted for him.

A fluke.

Which was not repeated, even though Biden spent the entire campaign season in his basement while Trump rallied his supporters at every opportunity. Biden ceded the campaign trail to Trump but won anyway.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#332732 - 02/23/21 04:06 PM Re: Another reason for impeachment [Re: perotista]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17694
Loc: Florida
Quote:
As for voting, I don't think I have a political agenda. I just want competent, able leadership. Leadership I'm comfortable with and think is good for the country as a whole.


And once again I say that your political agenda, or ideology, is what makes you comfortable with some candidates but not others.

The leadership you are comfortable with makes me cringe, and what you think is good for the country I think is terrible for the country, the
world, and for future generations. That's how ideology works.

Hillary could have provided competent able leadership. Trump did not.

Biden will provide competent able leadership, but he's not a progressive and will fall far short of achieving what needs to be done. At the end of his term there will be more cans kicked down the road than cans picked up and dealt with.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#332735 - 02/23/21 04:31 PM Re: Another reason for impeachment [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10735
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Goldammit, Greger! Can you stop with all the rational thinking for two seconds!?
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#332737 - 02/23/21 04:36 PM Re: Another reason for impeachment [Re: logtroll]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17694
Loc: Florida
I don't come here for three word story games.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#332738 - 02/23/21 04:40 PM Re: Another reason for impeachment [Re: logtroll]
TatumAH Online   content
journeyman

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 769
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Goldammit, Greger! Can you stop with all the rational thinking for two seconds!?


He can't stop, he is telepathologically reading my mind! I apologize to him for the messy trauma!

TAT
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

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#332760 - Yesterday at 05:26 PM Re: Another reason for impeachment [Re: logtroll]
perotista Offline
member

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 1198
Cringe if you like my friend. I was very comfortable with Eisenhower, JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush Sr., Bill Clinton, Bush Jr., Obama. But not at all comfortable with Trump. As for my voting record, 1968 when one had to be 21 to vote, Nixon, 1972, Nixon, 1976 & 1980 Carter, 1984 Reagan, 1988 Bush Sr., 1992 & 96, Perot, 00 & 04 Bush Jr. 08 McCain, 12 & 16 Johnson, 20 Biden.

I don't know what that says about my political ideology or agenda. I suppose you'll tell me. Now I was too young to remember Truman, born right after WWII so I didn't include him. I'm also comfortable so far with Biden.

I remembered Nixon as IKE's VP and had a very positive impression of him. Jimmy Carter was one excellent governor and I expected him to continue that excellence as president. Reagan, I like the guy and times were good. Bush Sr. a Reagan third term, at least that was the hope.

Perot, I got to know him in 1969 when I was in Laos when he flew into Vientiane with a 707 full of Christmas presents for our POW's held in Hanoi. That is another story for another time. I was all for reducing the debt and still am.

Bush Jr. A home boy, I just plain didn't like Gore, he was a statue with no personality, charisma. He rubbed me the wrong way. Same for John Kerry. McCain, a comrade in arms, a POW, a maverick who was willing to defy the Republican Party when he thought they were wrong. Good man.

Johnson, more or less a protest vote. In 2012 I had lost faith in Obama and didn't trust Romney. I certainly didn't like how Romney changed his stripes from a liberal northeastern Republican to portraying himself as a conservative. That didn't fit. Biden, a return to adult leadership.

There you have it. Now feel free to tell me what all of that says about my agenda and ideology. Oh, From 1968 through 2002, I pretty much voted straight Democratic at the state and lower levels. The general election didn't mean much, office holders were decided in the democratic primary back then. From 2002 on, it's been mostly Republican at the federal level with the exception of my Democratic congressman and a vote for Michelle Nunn for senator. Locally, county commissioner, sheriff etc. a very mixed bag of both.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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