Current Topics
Thank God for GW
by Ma_Republican
0 seconds ago
Bloomberg to replace Geithner?
by Scoutgal
22 minutes 37 seconds ago
Man Behind The Ground Zero Mosque?
by Scoutgal
26 minutes 14 seconds ago
Robt Reich Unemployment blog
by Greger
51 minutes 30 seconds ago
Malthus
by Greger
Today at 01:09 PM
Redistribution of Wealth?
by Greger
Today at 12:55 PM
Hostile Takeover
by numan
Today at 12:39 PM
meme
by numan
Today at 12:07 PM
Pension Plan Crimes
by itstarted
Today at 12:01 PM
HAMP helped banks not homeowners
by california rick
Today at 11:51 AM
Obama's leadership on health care.
by Ma_Republican
Today at 11:30 AM
GWB Redux
by Chuck Howard
Today at 10:55 AM
Hillary Clinton Turns Arizona In To United Nations
by Joe Keegan
Today at 07:03 AM
Round Table for the Week of August 29th, 2010
by Schlack
Today at 05:23 AM
Glenn Beck calls for national revival
by Ardy
Yesterday at 11:12 PM
Forum Stats
5817 Members
56 Forums
8106 Topics
145662 Posts

Max Online: 282 @ 05/29/08 01:08 AM
Google Adsense
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#47446 - 01/16/08 07:32 AM ACLU: Sex in bathroom stalls is private
california rick Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 22343
Loc: Bay Area, California
 Quote:
In an effort to help Sen. Larry Craig, the American Civil Liberties Union is arguing that people who have sex in public bathrooms have an expectation of privacy.

Craig, of Idaho, is asking the Minnesota Court of Appeals to let him withdraw his guilty plea to disorderly conduct stemming from a bathroom sex sting at the Minneapolis airport.

The ACLU filed a brief Tuesday supporting Craig. It cited a Minnesota Supreme Court ruling 38 years ago that found that people who have sex in closed stalls in public restrooms "have a reasonable expectation of privacy.

Yahoo! News

I know a lot of gay men that are going to be happy to hear about this!
_________________________
If government has no favors to sell, no one will spend money trying to win them.
-John Stossel

Top
#47458 - 01/16/08 08:31 AM Re: ACLU: Sex in bathroom stalls is private [Re: california rick]
2wins Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/29/04
Posts: 5803
Loc: Barely above Sea Level
But wasn't the issue about solicitation, not sex in a stall?
_________________________
Different strokes for different folks, Molly said as she kissed the cow. - 2wins' grandmother.

Top
#47474 - 01/16/08 11:00 AM Re: ACLU: Sex in bathroom stalls is private [Re: 2wins]
california rick Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 22343
Loc: Bay Area, California
The foot tapping, etc is all solicitation for sex in a stall. The transaction generally doesn't take place off-site.

It's easy to bust a john for soliciting a prostitute, but how do you bust solicitation for gay sex when it's all coded and no words are exchanged?

One's man's foot tap may mean something else to another.

Besides, gay men don't pay for sex - they don't have to because there are far too many willing participants, but closeted or men "on the down-low" do pay for sex - because they want a sure thing and generally want it kept quiet. With sex for free, you pretty much have to be public about it.
_________________________
If government has no favors to sell, no one will spend money trying to win them.
-John Stossel

Top
#47477 - 01/16/08 11:35 AM Re: ACLU: Sex in bathroom stalls is private [Re: 2wins]
Phil Hoskins Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 15508
Loc: West Hollywood, CA
 Quote:
The ACLU filed a brief Tuesday supporting Craig. It cited a Minnesota Supreme Court ruling 38 years ago that found that people who have sex in closed stalls in public restrooms "have a reasonable expectation of privacy."

The Republican senator was arrested June 11 by an undercover officer who said Craig tapped his feet and swiped his hand under a stall divider in a way that signaled he wanted sex. Craig has denied that.

The ACLU argued that even if Craig was inviting the officer to have sex, his actions wouldn't be illegal.

"The government cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Sen. Craig was inviting the undercover officer to engage in anything other than sexual intimacy that would not have called attention to itself in a closed stall in the public restroom," the ACLU wrote.

The ACLU also noted that Craig was originally charged with interference with privacy, which it said was an admission by the state that people in the restroom stall expect privacy.

Los Angeles Times
_________________________
You don't have to believe everything you think

Top
#47500 - 01/16/08 01:39 PM Re: ACLU: Sex in bathroom stalls is private [Re: 2wins]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
veteran

Registered: 09/29/04
Posts: 7029
Loc: Lakewood, Washington
 Originally Posted By: 2wins
But wasn't the issue about solicitation, not sex in a stall?
That was kinda my thought too, 2wins. Although I fundamentally agree with the ACLU position - there is an expectation of privacy in a stall - the solicitation occurred between stalls. Of course, my concern is not for any kind of willing, consensual activity between individuals - which I think is not only perfectly lawful, but constitutionally protected. Really, my only concern is for non-consensual contact while in a stall. Of course, this is obviated to a great extent by the "code," but I would personally not want to be solicited while in a bathroom stall. Also, of course, such solicitation only becomes "necessary" because of the social stigma that has been placed on the activity. If people could be open about their sexual choices - both regarding partners and regardless of their "commitments," e.g., married/single/engaged - such surreptitious activity might not be so prevalent.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Top
#47501 - 01/16/08 01:45 PM Re: ACLU: Sex in bathroom stalls is private [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
veteran

Registered: 09/29/04
Posts: 7029
Loc: Lakewood, Washington
By the way, Phil, I missed the point the ACLU made that the State itself admitted to the expectation of privacy in the stall by saying Craig "interfered with" privacy. Can't have it both ways, can you?

Anyone know where to get the ACLU brief?
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Top
#47513 - 01/16/08 03:37 PM Re: ACLU: Sex in bathroom stalls is private [Re: NW Ponderer]
california rick Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 22343
Loc: Bay Area, California
 Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Anyone know where to get the ACLU brief?

I found the brief on the ACLU site: State of Minnesota v Larry Edwin Craig
_________________________
If government has no favors to sell, no one will spend money trying to win them.
-John Stossel

Top
#47514 - 01/16/08 03:44 PM Re: ACLU: Sex in bathroom stalls is private [Re: Phil Hoskins]
california rick Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 22343
Loc: Bay Area, California
 Quote:
The ACLU filed a brief Tuesday supporting Craig. It
"The government cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Sen. Craig was inviting the undercover officer to engage in anything other than sexual intimacy that would not have called attention to itself in a closed stall in the public restroom," the ACLU wrote.

Should Larry Edwin Craig or his partner be a 'moaner' - the act of sexual intimacy taking place inside a bathroom stall would surely have been called attention to.
_________________________
If government has no favors to sell, no one will spend money trying to win them.
-John Stossel

Top
#47515 - 01/16/08 03:45 PM Re: ACLU: Sex in bathroom stalls is private [Re: california rick]
Ma_Republican Online   content
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 4311
Loc: USA
But wouldn'tthis ruling be discriminatory to hetro sex? Afterall, women are not allowed in the mens room.
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

Top
#47516 - 01/16/08 03:46 PM Re: ACLU: Sex in bathroom stalls is private [Re: Ma_Republican]
california rick Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 22343
Loc: Bay Area, California
There's no law that states that woman are not allowed in men's restrooms - it's simply a cultural custom, therefore, it can't be discriminatory.
_________________________
If government has no favors to sell, no one will spend money trying to win them.
-John Stossel

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Who's Online
0 registered (), 7 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
rbw152, Michelle3871, carolinarain, cdawson65, marianneliz
5817 Registered Users
Burst