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#47446 - 01/16/08 07:32 AM
ACLU: Sex in bathroom stalls is private
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 22343
Loc: Bay Area, California
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In an effort to help Sen. Larry Craig, the American Civil Liberties Union is arguing that people who have sex in public bathrooms have an expectation of privacy.
Craig, of Idaho, is asking the Minnesota Court of Appeals to let him withdraw his guilty plea to disorderly conduct stemming from a bathroom sex sting at the Minneapolis airport.
The ACLU filed a brief Tuesday supporting Craig. It cited a Minnesota Supreme Court ruling 38 years ago that found that people who have sex in closed stalls in public restrooms "have a reasonable expectation of privacy. Yahoo! News I know a lot of gay men that are going to be happy to hear about this!
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If government has no favors to sell, no one will spend money trying to win them. -John Stossel
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#47458 - 01/16/08 08:31 AM
Re: ACLU: Sex in bathroom stalls is private
[Re: california rick]
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old hand
Registered: 07/29/04
Posts: 5803
Loc: Barely above Sea Level
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But wasn't the issue about solicitation, not sex in a stall?
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Different strokes for different folks, Molly said as she kissed the cow. - 2wins' grandmother.
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#47474 - 01/16/08 11:00 AM
Re: ACLU: Sex in bathroom stalls is private
[Re: 2wins]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 22343
Loc: Bay Area, California
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The foot tapping, etc is all solicitation for sex in a stall. The transaction generally doesn't take place off-site.
It's easy to bust a john for soliciting a prostitute, but how do you bust solicitation for gay sex when it's all coded and no words are exchanged?
One's man's foot tap may mean something else to another.
Besides, gay men don't pay for sex - they don't have to because there are far too many willing participants, but closeted or men "on the down-low" do pay for sex - because they want a sure thing and generally want it kept quiet. With sex for free, you pretty much have to be public about it.
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If government has no favors to sell, no one will spend money trying to win them. -John Stossel
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#47477 - 01/16/08 11:35 AM
Re: ACLU: Sex in bathroom stalls is private
[Re: 2wins]
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Moderator
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 15508
Loc: West Hollywood, CA
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The ACLU filed a brief Tuesday supporting Craig. It cited a Minnesota Supreme Court ruling 38 years ago that found that people who have sex in closed stalls in public restrooms "have a reasonable expectation of privacy."
The Republican senator was arrested June 11 by an undercover officer who said Craig tapped his feet and swiped his hand under a stall divider in a way that signaled he wanted sex. Craig has denied that.
The ACLU argued that even if Craig was inviting the officer to have sex, his actions wouldn't be illegal.
"The government cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Sen. Craig was inviting the undercover officer to engage in anything other than sexual intimacy that would not have called attention to itself in a closed stall in the public restroom," the ACLU wrote.
The ACLU also noted that Craig was originally charged with interference with privacy, which it said was an admission by the state that people in the restroom stall expect privacy. Los Angeles Times
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You don't have to believe everything you think
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#47500 - 01/16/08 01:39 PM
Re: ACLU: Sex in bathroom stalls is private
[Re: 2wins]
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Moderator
veteran
Registered: 09/29/04
Posts: 7029
Loc: Lakewood, Washington
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But wasn't the issue about solicitation, not sex in a stall? That was kinda my thought too, 2wins. Although I fundamentally agree with the ACLU position - there is an expectation of privacy in a stall - the solicitation occurred between stalls. Of course, my concern is not for any kind of willing, consensual activity between individuals - which I think is not only perfectly lawful, but constitutionally protected. Really, my only concern is for non-consensual contact while in a stall. Of course, this is obviated to a great extent by the "code," but I would personally not want to be solicited while in a bathroom stall. Also, of course, such solicitation only becomes "necessary" because of the social stigma that has been placed on the activity. If people could be open about their sexual choices - both regarding partners and regardless of their "commitments," e.g., married/single/engaged - such surreptitious activity might not be so prevalent.
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A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.
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#47501 - 01/16/08 01:45 PM
Re: ACLU: Sex in bathroom stalls is private
[Re: NW Ponderer]
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Moderator
veteran
Registered: 09/29/04
Posts: 7029
Loc: Lakewood, Washington
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By the way, Phil, I missed the point the ACLU made that the State itself admitted to the expectation of privacy in the stall by saying Craig "interfered with" privacy. Can't have it both ways, can you?
Anyone know where to get the ACLU brief?
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.
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#47513 - 01/16/08 03:37 PM
Re: ACLU: Sex in bathroom stalls is private
[Re: NW Ponderer]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 22343
Loc: Bay Area, California
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Anyone know where to get the ACLU brief? I found the brief on the ACLU site: State of Minnesota v Larry Edwin Craig
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If government has no favors to sell, no one will spend money trying to win them. -John Stossel
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#47514 - 01/16/08 03:44 PM
Re: ACLU: Sex in bathroom stalls is private
[Re: Phil Hoskins]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 22343
Loc: Bay Area, California
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The ACLU filed a brief Tuesday supporting Craig. It "The government cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Sen. Craig was inviting the undercover officer to engage in anything other than sexual intimacy that would not have called attention to itself in a closed stall in the public restroom," the ACLU wrote. Should Larry Edwin Craig or his partner be a 'moaner' - the act of sexual intimacy taking place inside a bathroom stall would surely have been called attention to.
_________________________
If government has no favors to sell, no one will spend money trying to win them. -John Stossel
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#47515 - 01/16/08 03:45 PM
Re: ACLU: Sex in bathroom stalls is private
[Re: california rick]
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old hand
Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 4311
Loc: USA
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But wouldn'tthis ruling be discriminatory to hetro sex? Afterall, women are not allowed in the mens room.
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A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter
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#47516 - 01/16/08 03:46 PM
Re: ACLU: Sex in bathroom stalls is private
[Re: Ma_Republican]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 22343
Loc: Bay Area, California
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There's no law that states that woman are not allowed in men's restrooms - it's simply a cultural custom, therefore, it can't be discriminatory.
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If government has no favors to sell, no one will spend money trying to win them. -John Stossel
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