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#57255 - 03/20/08 07:16 PM Re: How the hate mongers operate [Re: 2wins]
olyve Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 7503
Loc: Athens, Ga.
 Originally Posted By: 2wins
he luvs 'merika too ...


damn 2wins....are you just pickin on Georgia?
_________________________

"Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning how to dance in the rain."

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#57257 - 03/20/08 07:17 PM Re: How the hate mongers operate [Re: Phil Hoskins]
AustinRanter Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/29/06
Posts: 3643
Loc: Austin, Texas
Prime Example of Hate

My other half just called me minutes ago...rather shocked and extremely angry. She said as she was driving in Austin and that she was channel flipping on the radio and heard a song playing that at first she thought it to be "Puff, the Magic Dragon". Instead the lyrics became rapidly clear and she was hearing a song that's lyrics was "Obama, The Magic Negro". She said that she sat in shock and in less than one minute Rush Linbaugh comes on the air and says, "I bet you'd think I'd be in hotwater over that song, but I'm in hotwater all the time because"...then his voice switched to a commerical for a tankless hotwater heater company.

I happened to read a blurb the other day where Linbaugh condemned Rev. Wright...not as a racist, but as one of the worst hate mongers in America. I thought that to be odd after reading that as I've considered Linbaugh as one of the champion hate monger radio-spinners for sometime now. But this incident is icing on the cake, so-to-speak. This has to chime as one of the all-time-low-broadcasts by Linbaugh.

This is another sad day...among many as of late.
_________________________
Turn on ANY brand of political machine - and it automatically goes to the "SPIN and LIE CYCLE" wink

Yours Truly - Gregg



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#57261 - 03/20/08 07:26 PM Re: How the hate mongers operate [Re: AustinRanter]
Phil Hoskins Offline
Administrator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 21134
Loc: West Hollywood, CA
It is pretty clear that in response to Sen. Obama's invitation to let go of the politics of hate and division -- on all sides -- and enter into a real discussion to bring us together, what we will get is even more hate, more ridiculous conjecture and division.

Ma, with respect, the title of this thread is "How the hate mongers operate" and you interjected Sen. McCain, not me. He has more hate mongers and anti-American advisers that all the Democratic candidates put together. He is a prime example of "winning at any cost" and yet you think he is the better choice because you are paranoid about Sen. Obama.

If that is the way this election goes, we deserve whatever stupidity ensues. I for one am really disgusted at your suggestions and the way you try to cover really overt prejudice with the thin veneer of "legitimate questions."
_________________________
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul

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#57282 - 03/20/08 10:49 PM Re: How the hate mongers operate [Re: Ma_Republican]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15413
 Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
 Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
I think the standard I have been able to glean from this discussion is this: If you are not willing to condemn someone, then you are unamerican. If you are willing to condemn them, that proves you are a true American (read, Republican).


Don't give me that BS and tell me its perfume. I condemn any movement that advocated hate and violence. I am unwiulling to hand my country over to a person who has proven that he follows such a sectarian and vile religion. It doesn't matter if he is Black or White. Seems to me that David Duke was a Republican who the Reps banished. The Dems still embrace Robert Byrd, the only member of the KKK in Congress, oh yes, he resigned.

If you are not questioning his motives you are not serious about electing the best person, only serious about electing the best Dem. Sometimes life gives you lemons, sometimes life gives you lemonade. If there is a person in the world who understands forgiveness it is me, and all those skeletons in my closet would attest to that fact. Don't start laying a guilt trip on me, I have nothing to be guilty about. A serious person will look at this and think long and hard about it. It deserves deep thought and a presidential election deserves serious consideration. The POTUS can do serious damage in even 1 term.
I want to make sure that what I last wrote was not misinterpreted: I was reflecting back on what I started the thread with, not casting aspersions on you, Ma. (I say that because of the "guilt trip" reference.)

Having said that, however, I do think that you (Ma) have blinders on when it comes to dispassionately addressing the question. Yes, I am an Obama fan so I suffer from the opposite complaint. I give him credence when he says he loves his country, his wife, his life, his community. I believe he is a genuine patriot and both a deep and clear thinker. I also think this because I have read his works. On the opposite hand, I think that your skepticism about anyone who starts from the left of your position or has a "D" in his party affiliation. But... I have to say that I see an inconsistancy in application. It is absolutely not equivalent to compare Obama to Duke, because Duke espoused those views and Obama never has. Nor is it fair or rational to apply that standard to Byrd who very clearly disavowed his views from the past and lived the opposite through most of his years in the Senate. It gets back to guilt by association - pure and simple, and I don't think that is a rational approach. Your standard for Obama is simply unattainable, and I think if you look at it dispassionately you will see that. You are requiring him to prove a negative, which any logician will tell you is not possible. "I am unwiulling to hand my country over to a person who has proven that he follows such a sectarian and vile religion." You accuse him of following a religion he has never espoused, then convict him for not proving he hasn't. What evidence would he be required to provide to disprove an unprovable allegation? That's a serious question, not rhetorical. What standard would you apply?
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#57286 - 03/20/08 11:15 PM Re: How the hate mongers operate [Re: ]
Schlack Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9715
Loc: Ireland
magic negro song, err. enjoy

as we can hear this is definately from the Hillary camp, isnt racist and asks legtimate questions.
_________________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)


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#57290 - 03/20/08 11:42 PM Re: How the hate mongers operate [Re: Schlack]
Phil Hoskins Offline
Administrator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 21134
Loc: West Hollywood, CA
On balance, all of this is good, for the simple reason that the hate, doubts, whatever you want to call it is there anyway. What is important, however, is that we find a way beyond those reactions and a path toward reconciliation.

I don't expect that of Rev. Wright, or Ruch Limbaugh, or Rev. Peasly. I am thankful to find it in Sen. Obama, even if not so much elsewhere on the political spectrum.
_________________________
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul

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#57291 - 03/20/08 11:47 PM Re: How the hate mongers operate [Re: Schlack]
Schlack Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9715
Loc: Ireland
i wonder what we'll call this phenomonomomon

swiftblacking?

anyways:

 Quote:
Apparently, today was a slow news day.

So Fox News evidently decided to pore through our millions of user-created pages on My.BarackObama.com and put a screenshot of inflammatory content on the front page of FoxNews.com.

You see, more than 700,000 people have created accounts on the system. You can create one right now if you choose, in about a minute -- anyone can.

Now, from time to time people get up to no good -- creating fake profiles (like one for Sean Hannity created today), or posting profane or inappropriate content. When they do, the community reports the offending content and if it violates our terms of service it is removed (as the Sean Hannity profile was).

My.BarackObama.com has been at the core of our bottom-up organizing strategy. The tools available have been put to work by a community of supporters that is bigger and more powerful than anything presidential politics has ever seen.

Evidently, Fox News didn't think it was a big deal that hundreds of thousands of ordinary Americans are participating in the democratic process creating groups and local events in communities all across the country.

But they did think it was a big deal that one random person on the Internet, without the knowledge of the Obama campaign, posted a profile in the system with the image of the New Black Panther Party on it.

When we were alerted of the existence of this page, we pulled it down. Yet even after we pulled the page, Fox News continues to disingenuously and prominently feature this "story" on their homepage.


so a link on an obama forum created by ???? (it was probably toots) linked to the black panthers is a top fox news story.

myobama.com link

Isnt that what might be called hate mongering?

ok so a link posted here means that Doug could be called a terrorist, racist, paedophile or similar because of the content of a posters link and opinions?
_________________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)


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#57292 - 03/20/08 11:49 PM Re: How the hate mongers operate [Re: Schlack]
Schlack Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9715
Loc: Ireland
and indeed the new logo of the swiftblackers

_________________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)


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#57300 - 03/21/08 12:16 AM Re: How the hate mongers operate [Re: Ma_Republican]
Reality Bytes Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 1004
Loc: Iowa
 Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
 Originally Posted By: RedheatII
 Quote:
That Obama loves America is open to question.


Wow, that is quite the statement to make. So listening to someone rant bitterly about this country is being "unamerican" BUT supporting the continued killing of Americans and civilians in Iraq is unquestinably American?

Clear we have different views on what constitutes loving ones country. Here I thought it was putting what is best for all above politics, guess some have a different view on that.


Time to show just how paranoid I am, I guess.

Suppose Obama really is a radical member of the Black Liberation Theology movement? Suppose he really is what he could be? He becomes President because the voters believe that he can't really believe what his pastor said. Suppose, just for the hell of it, that he does things that make America weak. Suppose, and I am willing to believe this, that I am wrong and he really is a saint.

I knew, or at least I thought I knew, what Carter, Reagan, Bush the Elder, Clinton and GW thought about America. I also know, or thought I knew, what could happen if Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Dole and Gore would try to do if they had been elected. Can you honestly tell me that you are confident that you know Obama's heart in this matter, beyond a shaddow of a doubt?

I am not an Obama guy, up until last week I thought he was just the next Dem President. I thought that McCain was the most likely to succeed Rep candidate, but the Dems were going to win. Today I look and see McCain as the front runner, and it may not be close. Obama is very damaged. What he is being associated with isn"t even close to main stream and America wants main stream.

I am PARANOID! I believe that WMD not only existed, but still do. I believe that there were multiple shooters in Dallas in 1963. I believe in UFO's. I believe that Obama is guilty of at least bad judgement and probably more. I want vanilla and whiped cream, not fudge ripple with hot sauce. I want somebody who will care about US, about We the People. If Obama cannot convince enough people that he does, he is doomed.

If you are willing to elect a guy who has serious questions in the name of party politics, then there really is something wrong. In Nov, when the rubber hits the road, Obama will have had to have convinced America to forget about the Reverend Wright. That is a very big chore for a guy who couldn't dig up the guts to leave the church in the first place.


Hi, Ma_Rep, been awhile! Welcome!

First, I'd like to take the last, first - I too believe on more than one shooter, UFOs and the existence of WMDs... (by the way, WE FOUND THEM! - They're in North Dakota!) ...sorry, little joke there... but we agree on 2 outta 3 anyway...

I also agree with you that the quotes by "Black Liberation Theology" are indeed very troubling; and if that is a part of the core theology of the United Church of Christ, then I too would be VERY concerned. I'll try to find it myself, but since you apparently found it on their site (or an archived site, if they took it down - the wayback machine is a wonderful thing!), it would be very helpful if you could provide a link.

There are two other points, though, that we may differ and I'd like you to consider. The first point is in regarding the pastor...

Item one: I don't know, and I don't know if you do, if he spouted the angry rhetoric every week, as you put it... I suspect that it may very well be more in response to current events, like elections, bills in congress passing (or not passing), or community news that prompted such sermons... do you know if it was truly 50 times a year or more, or more like 5 or 10, in direct response to some egregious failing or political event that to him demanded a response? I don't know, I'll see if I can find evidence one way or the other - if you do know, I'd be very interested to see it.

Item two: I don't know, and I don't know if you do, how many weeks in those 20 years, that Obama actually physically attended that church; I suspect that he was out of town much of that time, so I would expect it to be far less than 50%. Do you know?

Item three: What part of his sermons are hyperbole, for effect; which parts are spoken to motivate (yes, in anger) but not hate; what parts are ugly but true? When the president of our country says that it is OK to torture, you bet I would say "God Damn the President!" - I wouldn't say that for the entire USA, but just as there are those who associate torture, the president and the USA as synonymous, in a "good" way (excuse me while I throw up), it would not surprise me to find the same done in a "bad" way (well, one outta three ain't good)

To give perhaps a pretty relevant example...

Jerry Falwell preached that 9/11 was "God's answer" to liberal tolerance for gays and such; so did Fred Phelps.

I vehemently disagree with both, but I find Fred Phelps to be a sick twisted evil so-and-so that I cannot imagine McCain ever possibly thinking of associating with, and am certain he would disown if called to... But Falwell? Thoroughly misguided and quite likely driven by greed so far as to betray true christian thought, in my opinion - but I wouldn't be really upset if McCain does not disown him; if he repudiates the hateful type remarks, that's reasonable enough to me (incidentally, has he ever done so?).

Likewise, there is Wright, and there is Farrakhan.

I vehemently disagree with the hateful parts of sermons of both Wright and Farrakhan; and although in a very narrow way Farrakhan may have once had some useful point to make, his twisted and divisive words(*) do far more harm than good, and have long since overshadowed any worthwhile message he may have wanted to bring forth... he is a divisive and evil force in my opinion. But Wright? Has he not also preached many good loving compassionate sermons, has he not accepted and embraced support from white America to work together on many charitable projects? If Obama honors the positive while repudiating the hateful type remarks, that's reasonable enough to me.

(What I would like to see now, would be Wright's response to Obama's speech... that might help answer a lot of your questions.)


The other point we may disagree on is one you started but didn't quite seem to finish... your "What If?" scenarios.

"What if" Obama is elected and is the worst that he could be? Do you think that somehow that the Constitution would be overthrown, riots in the streets, Louis Farrakhan becomes Attorney General, what? Do you think it would be better to have the worst that Clinton could become? What's the worst that McCain could be? Worse than Bush? How much of any of the above do you think would be enabled by congress, the courts, or the people?

And what about your other 'what if'? What if Obama *is* a saint, that he really does 'lead us to the promised land' that MLK knew would never come in his lifetime? What if he was able to get our troops out of Iraq and stop propping up that government so that they had to find the solution that only they can find, and focus instead on bin Ladn in Afghanistan and Pakistan? What if engaging Iran and Syria in diplomacy actually resulted in comprehensive constructive solutions in the middle east rather than 'politics as usual' saber-rattling?

It seems to me that any of them could possibly make the latter come true (as unlikely as it may be for any of them), but only Obama has a ghost of a chance at finally making, as he put it, 'a more perfect union' and actually succeed in reducing the divisiveness in America.... which I think is necessary to having a reasonable chance at solving so many of our other ills and making America as great and respected a land as it once was.

So, shall it be 'politics as usual'?

Or can we hope that the country says "Not this time!"



(*) By the way, I thought I'd look up 'Farrakhan' on Wikipedia, to read a more comprehensive look at his words... there some religious scholars have admitted that he is right to say a lot of his words have been taken out of context; I still think he is divisive and wrong on so many things for so long, but it is revealing to read both sides of the story


Edited by Reality Bytes (03/21/08 12:21 AM)
Edit Reason: footnote
_________________________
Castigat Ridendo Mores
(laughter succeeds where lecturing fails)

"Those who will risk nothing, risk everything"

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#57303 - 03/21/08 01:23 AM Re: How the hate mongers operate [Re: Reality Bytes]
Schlack Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9715
Loc: Ireland
the switch in mental gears during the smearing of Obama is quite impressive.

Wasnt it only last week that we had the Obama the terrorist muslim? now we have the drumbeat about his christian preacher.

wanna bet some folks in november will be equally convinced that he is a Muslim "sleeper" AND also had been turned into a black radical by his christian preacher.

exactly how long do they think peoples memories are?

Jesus Wept.

I truly hope Obama wins in November, for the good of US politics. To beat down the slime machine, hopefully to break it, would i think be quite transformational. (think Andy Dufresne wading through a river of shite and coming out clean)

I think Obama is a gifted Orator, I hope he can govern as well as he speaks. I hope he gets the chance.
_________________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)


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