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#87022 - 11/13/08 09:47 PM Re: What would you give up first? [Re: stereoman]
kap17 Offline

Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 1026
 Originally Posted By: stereoman
 Originally Posted By: olyve
 Originally Posted By: stereoman
You got it made, Greger. And once you sell your won estate, you can afford that ticket, and might even have some money left over to pay off your creditors.

Welcome back, dockside!

 Originally Posted By: kap17
For a person leaving within their means the total debt to income ratio (including housing expense) is around 35-41%.

 Originally Posted By: california rick
No one I know has that low of a income-to-debt ratio ratio of 35% - 41%.

Me neither, rick. Most middle class people I know are paying 30-50% on their house note and various insurances. Don't even start on credit cards!

I'd love to see some hard data on that. Got any, kap?
If you look at what Kap wrote (quoted above), he said for a person living within their means not most people.

Thanks for the tip, olyve. I was hoping hard data would lead us to recognize how many Americans are living within their means. I regret that my hasty style may have left the impression that I was disputing kap's assertion.

A rudimentary search yields this factoid from the always reliable Pew Trust:
As expenses have risen, middle income Americans have taken on more debt, often borrowing against homes that, at least until recently, had been rising rapidly in value. The median debt-to-income ratio for middle income adults increased from 0.45 in 1983 to 1.19 in 2004. Ratios have also increased for upper and lower income adults, but not by as much.

Just a quick review: median means there are an equal number below and above that point. So for every middle income American whose DTI is less than 119%, there is one whose DTI is above 119%.

This only furthers the point I was making in a few threads on economics.

How do Americans expect corporations to be responsible with the money when citizens themselves are not?

Before you start blaming the corporations for the current downturn in the economy (don't get me wrong, they deserve at least half of the blame) how about blaming the citizens that are increasingly living way beyond their means?
A gem cannot be polished without friction, nor a man perfected without trials. ~Chinese Proverb

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. ~Jon Hammond

#87025 - 11/13/08 10:10 PM Re: What would you give up first? [Re: kap17]
Mellowicious Offline

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 9624
Loc: flyover country
but...but Kap17 - I *do* blame those people. They're responsible for silliness like SkyMall and a Starbucks on every corner, among many other things, and I don't like that at all!

I am closer to being one of them than I like - but so far I haven't joined the ranks, and I intend not to if I can help it.

(Speaking of which: The people we're going to "help out" with their mortgages? I don't mind that if they have a reasonably-sized house. But I don't particularly want to bail out the foolish owners of McMansions so they can continue to occupy space they can't afford, by giving them a what? 50, 60 year mortgage?)

Edited by Mellowicious (11/13/08 10:12 PM)
Long time passing

#88348 - 11/23/08 07:28 AM Re: What would you give up first? [Re: Mellowicious]
erinys Offline

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 228
Loc: Waynesville, MO
I'm glad I put some thought into this subject. I might be needing to think about it in greater detail soon, since my employer is talking cut backs. We had a meeting in our department on Thursday on who could cutback hours and how much. Among other cuts, all full time personnel are cutting back to 36 hrs a week. On overnights, we work three 12 hr shifts anyway, so I don't have to take a cut....yet.

#88349 - 11/23/08 07:16 AM Re: What would you give up first? [Re: erinys]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14162
Loc: Whittier, California
 Originally Posted By: erinys
And I have a satellite pay radio in my vehicle, I could give that up.

---I forgot all about that...thanks for reminding me!
I guess I could give up my Sirius.
I haven't tuned in Howstern for a long time now, he's in one of his "less than funny" cycles the last month or so.
But I discovered the E Street Channel and a couple of the "vault" channels with some incredibly good music.

But I suppose I could just load up an mp3 player.
Yeah, the Sirius could go I guess.
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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