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#91195 - 12/16/08 06:35 PM Whistleblower or Traitor... Who Decides?
Reality Bytes Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 1004
Loc: Iowa
Interviewed on the Rachel Maddow Show

I posted on this earler, under the title "The Fed Who Blew the Whistle"... it seems to me to be just about as critical a constitutional issue as any, so I wonder why no one has commented.

I mean, somebody SHOULD go to jail... what odds that it will be the whistleblower, as the "Decider" suggested? Or the one who "decided" to break the law that the whistleblower was reporting?
_________________________
Castigat Ridendo Mores
(laughter succeeds where lecturing fails)

"Those who will risk nothing, risk everything"

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#91223 - 12/16/08 10:15 PM Re: Whistleblower or Traitor... Who Decides? [Re: Reality Bytes]
stereoman Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/30/04
Posts: 15646
Loc: Asheville, NC
I thought it was interesting enough to read the article when you first posted it, RB, but I really had no comment to make.
_________________________
Steve
Give us the wisdom to teach our children to love,
to respect and be kind to one another,
so that we may grow with peace in mind.

(Native American prayer)


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#91245 - 12/17/08 12:37 AM Re: Whistleblower or Traitor... Who Decides? [Re: stereoman]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13415
Loc: Whittier, California
I thought it was fascinating too, but I too do not know what to say other than that.

Not yet, anyway...
Gimme a little more time!

Jeff H in TX
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#91246 - 12/17/08 12:41 AM Re: Whistleblower or Traitor... Who Decides? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13415
Loc: Whittier, California
In other words, this is too heavy for me to make some glib comment.
I have to sit and digest this for a while RB...it's a real heavy.

In my eyes Tamm is a hero, that's all I can say for now.

Jeff H in TX
_________________________
"The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong."
Leon Russell - Magic Mirror"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-H1iQ5Y6Eg

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#91254 - 12/17/08 01:03 AM Re: Whistleblower or Traitor... Who Decides? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Reality Bytes Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 1004
Loc: Iowa
My own reaction... are we just shell-shocked, worn out, tilting at windmills, too tired to pen well-reasoned arguments when we know they will be of no import to those who "decide", anyway?

Pardon my cynicism, but optimism goes only so far...
_________________________
Castigat Ridendo Mores
(laughter succeeds where lecturing fails)

"Those who will risk nothing, risk everything"

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#91269 - 12/17/08 02:33 AM Re: Whistleblower or Traitor... Who Decides? [Re: Reality Bytes]
itstarted Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 6390
Loc: Florida/Illinois
Yeah... I'm a cynic too. Not enough energy to battle what's happened to our collective morality.

I find myself bringing up "LAW" ever more often in posts. Hundreds of years of developing a sophisticated legal system is being ignored and wasted at so many levels that I sigh the lack of moral strength that makes all of us more uncertain of our future.

Probably the very worst example of disregard of law came with the outrageous Supreme Court Decision in Florida.

As our world falls apart because of the failure of our government to uphold the Constitution, and the failure of departments of government to perform oversight on the matters entrusted to their basic responsibility, is it any wonder that honest persons live in fear and despair.

The whistleblower laws are defined only by the failure to enforce them. The ultimate responsibility rests with the President of the United States, who has failed... legally, ethically and morally.

That's my opinion, but there are a few others who probably share it.
_________________________
Life is Good!

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#91270 - 12/17/08 02:43 AM Re: Whistleblower or Traitor... Who Decides? [Re: itstarted]
itstarted Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 6390
Loc: Florida/Illinois
Sheesh.. Just got to this thread... OMG
 Quote:
This is an amazing end to the Bush Administration! Can we bring ourselves to believe it with only 35 days left???

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/supreme_court_overturns_bush_v?utm_source=onion_rss_washpost
_________________________
Life is Good!

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#91271 - 12/17/08 02:45 AM Re: Whistleblower or Traitor... Who Decides? [Re: Reality Bytes]
issodhos Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 12581
 Originally Posted By: Reality Bytes


I posted on this earler, under the title "The Fed Who Blew the Whistle"... it seems to me to be just about as critical a constitutional issue as any, so I wonder why no one has commented.


Hero? I don't think so. He indicated that he had political issues with the Bush administration prior to tipping the Times, so his motive(s) is tainted, if only by a smidgeon.

Traitor? No. Based on what has been reported, he did not divulge any classified information and he did not divulge any classified procedures. Indeed, the limited security clearance he had would have kept him from having any access to the SI stuff routinely procured by, generated by, or dissiminated by NatSecAg. It reads to me like all he did was divulge an apparently illegal procedure taking place within the Department of Justice. In other words, he did his duty as an agent of the law and as a patriot.

Follow in-house whistle-blower procedures? Why not just tie an anchor to your leg and jump into the Potomac River?:-)

I view him as a person who took a personal risk, probably out of a sense of integrity and a fealty to the Constitution and the rule of law (no one, not even the king, is above it -- shades of Runnymede all but lost in the mists of time).

He is not the criminal. He is deserving of protection and respect.
Yours,
Issodhos
_________________________
"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos

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#91300 - 12/17/08 05:21 AM Re: Whistleblower or Traitor... Who Decides? [Re: issodhos]
Reality Bytes Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 1004
Loc: Iowa
 Originally Posted By: issodhos
 Originally Posted By: Reality Bytes


I posted on this earler, under the title "The Fed Who Blew the Whistle"... it seems to me to be just about as critical a constitutional issue as any, so I wonder why no one has commented.


Hero? I don't think so. He indicated that he had political issues with the Bush administration prior to tipping the Times, so his motive(s) is tainted, if only by a smidgeon.

Traitor? No. Based on what has been reported, he did not divulge any classified information and he did not divulge any classified procedures. Indeed, the limited security clearance he had would have kept him from having any access to the SI stuff routinely procured by, generated by, or dissiminated by NatSecAg. It reads to me like all he did was divulge an apparently illegal procedure taking place within the Department of Justice. In other words, he did his duty as an agent of the law and as a patriot.

Follow in-house whistle-blower procedures? Why not just tie an anchor to your leg and jump into the Potomac River?:-)

I view him as a person who took a personal risk, probably out of a sense of integrity and a fealty to the Constitution and the rule of law (no one, not even the king, is above it -- shades of Runnymede all but lost in the mists of time).

He is not the criminal. He is deserving of protection and respect.
Yours,
Issodhos


Thank you, Iss. That is a very even-handed and carefully threaded path of logic... now what, in your opinion, should follow from his actions? An investigation? And if an investigation, should any crimes be prosecuted, no matter the perpetrator?
_________________________
Castigat Ridendo Mores
(laughter succeeds where lecturing fails)

"Those who will risk nothing, risk everything"

Top
#91306 - 12/17/08 06:44 AM Re: Whistleblower or Traitor... Who Decides? [Re: Reality Bytes]
issodhos Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 12581
 Originally Posted By: Reality Bytes
 Originally Posted By: issodhos
 Originally Posted By: Reality Bytes


I posted on this earler, under the title "The Fed Who Blew the Whistle"... it seems to me to be just about as critical a constitutional issue as any, so I wonder why no one has commented.


Hero? I don't think so. He indicated that he had political issues with the Bush administration prior to tipping the Times, so his motive(s) is tainted, if only by a smidgeon.

Traitor? No. Based on what has been reported, he did not divulge any classified information and he did not divulge any classified procedures. Indeed, the limited security clearance he had would have kept him from having any access to the SI stuff routinely procured by, generated by, or dissiminated by NatSecAg. It reads to me like all he did was divulge an apparently illegal procedure taking place within the Department of Justice. In other words, he did his duty as an agent of the law and as a patriot.

Follow in-house whistle-blower procedures? Why not just tie an anchor to your leg and jump into the Potomac River?:-)

I view him as a person who took a personal risk, probably out of a sense of integrity and a fealty to the Constitution and the rule of law (no one, not even the king, is above it -- shades of Runnymede all but lost in the mists of time).

He is not the criminal. He is deserving of protection and respect.
Yours,
Issodhos


Thank you, Iss. That is a very even-handed and carefully threaded path of logic... now what, in your opinion, should follow from his actions? An investigation? And if an investigation, should any crimes be prosecuted, no matter the perpetrator?


The rule-of-law is fundamental to our Republic. If we are ever to revive that republic it has to be through the enforcement of law regardless of the personage involved. If the president violated the law, he should be held legally accountable. It is the American thing to do.
Yours,
Issodhos
_________________________
"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos

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