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#91425 - 12/17/08 09:07 PM Re: We shall overcome [Re: pdx rick]
stereoman Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/30/04
Posts: 15646
Loc: Asheville, NC
 Originally Posted By: california rick
 Originally Posted By: stereoman
That's good rick. Now look at the difference between the two statements. In the first, the enemy is identified as a condition. In the second, we are admonished not to personify that condition.

You're good stereoman.

How many trophies did you win for your high school debate team? \:D

Give yourself some credit too, rick, for being willing to think about what someone else has to say even when it runs counter to your ingrained attitudes.
_________________________
Steve
Give us the wisdom to teach our children to love,
to respect and be kind to one another,
so that we may grow with peace in mind.

(Native American prayer)


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#91430 - 12/17/08 09:26 PM Re: We shall overcome [Re: pdx rick]
Phil Hoskins Offline
Administrator
Bionic Scribe

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 21134
Loc: West Hollywood, CA
 Originally Posted By: california rick
 Originally Posted By: Jeffro
Religion is a good target for the anger, but the followers are not a good place to attack.

Why isn't it a "good place" to "attack" "the followers." Can not "they" think for themselves?

I really don't see the difference:





Rick, attacking anyone has never seemed to me to win converts to a cause or a position. It can, as with the yes on 8 ads, excite those already committed to a cause or position, but that is not what we need.

We need to cause people to rethink (or maybe think) what they "know" about gay life and gay marriage as well as the principle of equal rights. I fail to see how attacking anyone or even any institution will bring that about.

I urge you to give people the space to make the changes themselves, albeit with your help and inspiration. Have you ever been "attacked" for being gay? How well did that work?
_________________________
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul

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#91452 - 12/18/08 12:10 AM Re: We shall overcome [Re: Phil Hoskins]
Jeffro Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/24/06
Posts: 605
Loc: San Francisco
 Originally Posted By: Phil Hoskins
 Originally Posted By: california rick
 Originally Posted By: Jeffro
Religion is a good target for the anger, but the followers are not a good place to attack.

Why isn't it a "good place" to "attack" "the followers." Can not "they" think for themselves?

I really don't see the difference:





Rick, attacking anyone has never seemed to me to win converts to a cause or a position. It can, as with the yes on 8 ads, excite those already committed to a cause or position, but that is not what we need.

We need to cause people to rethink (or maybe think) what they "know" about gay life and gay marriage as well as the principle of equal rights. I fail to see how attacking anyone or even any institution will bring that about.

I urge you to give people the space to make the changes themselves, albeit with your help and inspiration. Have you ever been "attacked" for being gay? How well did that work?
You beat me to it Phil. Key word: attack.

I LOVE that image Rick. I've had it in my cube at work since you first posted it a few years ago.
_________________________
We are constantly invited to be who we are. Henry David Thoreau

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#91480 - 12/18/08 01:26 AM Re: We shall overcome [Re: Phil Hoskins]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Ink Stained

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41348
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
 Originally Posted By: Phil Hoskins
I urge you to give people the space to make the changes themselves, albeit with your help and inspiration. Have you ever been "attacked" for being gay? How well did that work?

Good point Phil, I will heed your wisdom.
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#91481 - 12/18/08 01:27 AM Re: We shall overcome [Re: Jeffro]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Ink Stained

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41348
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
 Originally Posted By: Jeffro
I LOVE that image Rick. I've had it in my cube at work since you first posted it a few years ago.


(Don't let on that I recycle my material ;\) ) ***sheeesh***
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#91483 - 12/18/08 02:12 AM Re: We shall overcome [Re: pdx rick]
Phil Hoskins Offline
Administrator
Bionic Scribe

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 21134
Loc: West Hollywood, CA
From EQ California:

 Quote:
It is appalling that President-elect Barack Obama would invite California Pastor Rev. Rick Warren, an ardent supporter of Prop 8 and someone who is opposed to the equality of LGBT Americans, to give the invocation at his inauguration.
Demand President-elect Obama to immediately rescind this invitation.
http://www.eqca.org/actioncenter
Would President-elect Obama invite someone to give the invocation who supported eliminating the civil rights of a minority other than the LGBT community? Of course he wouldn’t!

This is a slap in the face to the millions of LGBT Americans who supported his historic candidacy.
TAKE ACTION: Sign EQCA’s petition to President-elect Obama. Ask him to immediately rescind this despicable invitation.
Link to website
_________________________
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul

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#91541 - 12/18/08 05:11 PM Re: We shall overcome [Re: Phil Hoskins]
SkyHawk Offline
Admin Emeritus
old hand

Registered: 04/07/99
Posts: 6298
On CNN's site

 Quote:
Warren, who has made it a practice not to endorse candidates or political parties, wrote in October that the issue of gay marriage is not a political issue, but instead "a moral issue that God has spoken clearly about."

"For 5,000 years, every culture and every religion -- not just Christianity -- has defined marriage as a contract between men and women," Warren wrote in a newsletter to his congregation. "There is no reason to change the universal, historical definition of marriage to appease 2 percent of our population."

Warren also stirred controversy earlier this week when he told Beliefnet.com his grounds for opposing same-sex marriage lay primarily on his right of free speech.

"There were all kinds of threats that if [Proposition 8] did not pass, then any pastor could be considered doing hate speech if he shared his views that he didn't think homosexuality was the most natural way for relationships, and that would be hate speech."

I'm curious as to whether or not Warren is being reimbursed in any way for his invocation. Why is there an invocation at all at a govt function? Seems to be a violation of separation of church and state.
_________________________
SkyHawk
.

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#91542 - 12/18/08 05:11 PM Re: We shall overcome [Re: SkyHawk]
Phil Hoskins Offline
Administrator
Bionic Scribe

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 21134
Loc: West Hollywood, CA
Amen, Skyhawk
_________________________
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul

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#91556 - 12/18/08 06:15 PM Re: We shall overcome [Re: Phil Hoskins]
olyve Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 7504
Loc: Athens, Ga.
wondering the same thing.

uneasy here
_________________________

"Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning how to dance in the rain."

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#91559 - 12/18/08 06:28 PM Re: We shall overcome [Re: olyve]
kap17 Offline
member

Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 1026
What happened to supporting Obama because he promissed to bring people together?

Sure, I don't agree with the viewes of that Pastor but he has the right to have those views. It is up to the Courts to make sure that no discriminatory laws are passed either by congress or voted in by the people.

Your bone to pick is not with the people that think gays should not be married... Your bone to pick should be with the California Supreme Court for allowing the proposition on the ballot in the first place.

I think Obama is showing that you can disagree with the views of a person and still work together with that person for the good of everyone.
_________________________
A gem cannot be polished without friction, nor a man perfected without trials. ~Chinese Proverb

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. ~Jon Hammond

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