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#99840 - 02/10/09 01:06 PM Re: 16 illegals sue Arizona rancher [Re: Almost Naomi]
pdx rick Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Almost Naomi
I don't see a problem that requires 32 million in reparation. Whether these specific illegal immigrants destroyed the man's property or not, trespassing isn't a civil right.

I'll agree that being turned over to the border patrol, at gunpoint, would cause emotional distress. But I will also assume the illegal immigrants, before they left home, considered the possibility of being stopped or arrested.




 Originally Posted By: Almost Naomi
If the article is accurate, Mr. Barnett and his family have also suffered emotional distress over the years. Is there anyone they can sue to compensate them for that?




Great post A.N.. \:\)
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#99842 - 02/10/09 01:15 PM Re: 16 illegals sue Arizona rancher [Re: stereoman]
pdx rick Offline
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 Originally Posted By: stereoman
Well obviously we have the word of the 16 alleged victims.




sidebar: I told this story before and I'll repeat it to refresh memories:

In Concord, CA there was an Albertsons when Albertsons was here in NorCal and a shoplifter stole some meat. The meat manager went after the shoplifter. A struggle ensued at the front door and, because it was raining, the front door area was wet - both parties ended on the floor.

Turns out, the shoplifter was in the country illegally and Albertsons was sued because the shop lifter "claimed" the meat manger punched him and such and caused great physical harm.

Well, the video of the incident showed no punches to the shoplifter - just the struggle.

This is all I have to say about the word of this particular shoplifter.

...back to topic.


If one is to sneak into a country knowing they're breaking the law and they know full well they shouldn't be doing it - how can we be sure "their word" is truthful? Does it not call into question said person's entire character and their character become an issue?
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#99845 - 02/10/09 01:38 PM Re: 16 illegals sue Arizona rancher [Re: Almost Naomi]
Slipped Mickey Offline
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Registered: 03/23/99
Posts: 12226
Loc: Land of Burnt Dirt
 Originally Posted By: Almost Naomi
From the article:
 Quote:
In the lawsuit, MALDEF said Mr. Barnett approached the group as the immigrants moved through his property, and that he was carrying a pistol and threatening them in English and Spanish. At one point, it said, Mr. Barnett's dog barked at several of the women and he yelled at them in Spanish, "My dog is hungry and he's hungry for buttocks."

...snip...

Trial continues Monday in the federal lawsuit, which seeks $32 million in actual and punitive damages for civil rights violations, the infliction of emotional distress and other crimes.


I don't see a problem that requires 32 million in reparation. Whether these specific illegal immigrants destroyed the man's property or not, trespassing isn't a civil right.

I'll agree that being turned over to the border patrol, at gunpoint, would cause emotional distress. But I will also assume the illegal immigrants, before they left home, considered the possibility of being stopped or arrested.

If the article is accurate, Mr. Barnett and his family have also suffered emotional distress over the years. Is there anyone they can sue to compensate them for that?

I have no legal expertise, but let's say a group of strangers...even US citizens...walks into my yard uninvited. They never touch anything. I'm angry; they've invaded my private space. My dog barks at them. I hold them at gunpoint until authorities arrive. Maybe the authorities let them go, maybe they arrest them. Can I, too, be sued? What have I done wrong?



What Almost Naomi said!
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#99859 - 02/10/09 03:39 PM Re: 16 illegals sue Arizona rancher [Re: stereoman]
Phil Hoskins Offline
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Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 21134
Loc: West Hollywood, CA
Interesting that my point about citizen's arrest is being avoided.

 Quote:
Texas Code of Criminal Procedure
Art. 14.01. [212] [259] [247] OFFENSE WITHIN VIEW.
(a) A peace officer or any other person, may, without a warrant,
arrest an offender when the offense is committed in his presence
or within his view, if the offense is one classed as a felony or as an offense against the public peace.
WikiAnswers

 Quote:
It is illegal to enter the United States without inspection or authorization from government officials.[7] The illegal entry of non-nationals into the United States is a misdemeanor according to the Immigration and Nationality Act, which prohibits non-nationals from entering or attempting to enter the United States at any time or place which has not been designated by an immigration officer, and also prohibits non-nationals from eluding inspection by immigration officers.[8]
Wikipedia

Texas law re: trespass:
 Quote:
An offense under Subsection (e) is a Class C misdemeanor
unless it is committed in a habitation or unless the actor carries a
deadly weapon on or about the actor's person during the commission
of the offense, in which event it is a Class A misdemeanor. An
offense under Subsection (a) is a Class B misdemeanor, except that
the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if:
(1) the offense is committed:
(A) in a habitation or a shelter center;
(B) on a Superfund site; or
(C) on or in a critical infrastructure facility;
Link

From what facts appear in the news, the 16 were not committing a law for which a citizen's arrest is lawful. As for the other 12,000, that also seems to be the case.

So in fact, this "rancher" is a lawbreaker. Should he be prosecuted?
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#99862 - 02/10/09 03:48 PM Re: 16 illegals sue Arizona rancher [Re: Phil Hoskins]
pdx rick Offline
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I thought this was happening in Arizona, not Texas...


Clearly, we all can agree that illegal entry into the United States of America needs to be a felony; not a misdemeanor.

Please. That itty bitty charge is so laughable.
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#99863 - 02/10/09 03:49 PM Re: 16 illegals sue Arizona rancher [Re: Phil Hoskins]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41348
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
 Originally Posted By: Phil Hoskins
So in fact, this "rancher" is a lawbreaker. Should he be prosecuted?

No more than the illegal enterers should be allowed to go on their way...
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#99864 - 02/10/09 03:51 PM Re: 16 illegals sue Arizona rancher [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41348
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Is holding a trespasser at gun-point a law-breaking offense? No one has stated that the rancher "arrested" these people.
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#99866 - 02/10/09 03:57 PM Re: 16 illegals sue Arizona rancher [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41348
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Question.

Is breaking and entering a private home a felony or misdemeanor?


...just curious.
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#99867 - 02/10/09 03:57 PM Re: 16 illegals sue Arizona rancher [Re: pdx rick]
Phil Hoskins Offline
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Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 21134
Loc: West Hollywood, CA
 Originally Posted By: california rick
Is holding a trespasser at gun-point and law-breaking offense? No one has stated that the rancher "arrested" these people.


Yes, Rick, it is kidnapping unless one has a right to a citizen's arrest. Now, if a trespasser is in some way threatening you, that would escalate their behavior to a felony and then holding them at gun point might be legal. Otherwise, the law is that you call law enforcement.

That this man was not arrested or charged is not pursuasive on the point given the apparent attitude of law enforcement in that area.
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#99868 - 02/10/09 03:58 PM Re: 16 illegals sue Arizona rancher [Re: pdx rick]
Phil Hoskins Offline
Administrator
Bionic Scribe

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 21134
Loc: West Hollywood, CA
 Originally Posted By: california rick
Question.

Is breaking and entering a private home a felony or misdemeanor?


...just curious.


That would be a felony, but that is not what happened.
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