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#305615 - 02/17/18 07:08 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 965
To risk repeating myself, all the candidates in my district are backing a $15/hr. Minimum wage. Legalizing weed, demilitarize police, medicaide for all, a green energy works project to name a few. These positions didn't arise from the third way democrats. I believe that they are an acknowledgement of the popularity of the sanders campaign and the recognition of failed incrementalism to excite the base to turn out to vote, IMO.
I also can't see the logic of the notion that having a banana sticker that says socialist was an insurmountable obstacle to winning in a general when the same could have been said about the opposition candidates observed shortcomings and yet he went on to win. Apparently, for all the disagreeable traits of the POTUS, none compare to having a socialist banana sticker.


Edited by chunkstyle (02/17/18 07:16 PM)

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#305625 - 02/18/18 12:47 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13270
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Jesus on a donkey strapped to a Budda Jeff,
With all the reporting on the grift, hubris and incompetency coming from that turd of a campaign, how is it that you reached the conclusion that it's the voters fault?
The mismanagement of DNC monies, the cronyism and racketeering of the DCCC. State party chairmen screaming for funding and 'how bout a coupla yard signs while your at it?!' . That organization gamed the primary, ran a board room suite candidate who could take Goldman money but couldn't get behind a $15/hr. Minimum wage but could maybe do $12.50/hr.
A major overhaul and realignment is what's needed in the party right now. Your not going to make that happen by blaming the voters for not falling in line for these third way democrats. Put the blame where it should be. Things have shifted dramatically in my district from financing to endorsing. All being done around the corporatist democratic leadership. They're losers who don't believing in anything but their rent seeking portfolios and incrementalism.


It still doesn't change the fact that voting for members of Congress in sufficient numbers would have preserved a majority.
And, if you look at the recent spate of upset elections, notice that the reboot IS indeed beginning from the ground up, because those winning candidates are mostly DFA or DSA, not Third Way, not Blue Dog and NOT DLC.

PS: I loved your "Jesus on a donkey strapped to a Buddha", but I am still sticking with my original Babay Jeebus meme:
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305630 - 02/18/18 04:16 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 965
Agreed Jeff,
There's a sad fact that a poor presidential candidate can suppress down ballot candidates. The opposite can also happen. Reports I've read have shown votes being cast for down ballot candidates and left the presidential choice blank. Further evidence of what an unpopular choice voters had to make.
Then there's the problem of nation wide neglect of the parties building of down ballot candidates happenning simultaneously as the Republican Party has been working overtime developing theirs. They have been running the boards with ALEX for the judiciary, the republican leadership council, colledge group organizing, gerrymandering, voter suppression, etc... They've had unchallenged congressional districts for years. To put it simply, they've out organized the Democratic Party.
So what else is new. At least the democrats once had the advantage of offering citizens bold ideas that would mitigate the viciousness of market forces or abuses of power structures. I don't believe your going to find those ideas in a living room on Martha's Vinyard or some Silicon Valley boardroom. This is why their needs to be street level participation.

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#305635 - 02/18/18 06:46 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13270
Loc: Whittier, California
All I can say is, I've been sensing a rumbling in the ground for the past year or so. The Democratic Party itself might be just as you say, but groups like Democracy for America and even the Democratic Socialists of America, are supplying the grass roots.
I know I dissed the DSA for their lackluster reaction to Bernie but they seem to be making up for it now, with candidates at the local level.
DSA is small potatoes still but DFA is now playing with big guns and playing for keeps.

I guess we'll see what happens in the Spring.
I hope I am not being overly optimistic but I sense that the folks in the DNC establishment are going to be in for something of a shock.
Complacency is a dangerous thing to get too comfortable with and the DNC establishment are the poster children.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305640 - 02/18/18 11:14 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 965
I had no idea the Dairy Farmers of America were so 'woke'.

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#305641 - 02/19/18 12:16 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: chunkstyle]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8868
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
You one damn funny actor, Chunks!
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#305642 - 02/19/18 02:21 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7886
Loc: North San Diego County
Interesting info in the indictments: Russian trolls actually helped Sanders in the primary campaigns. So some Sanders supporters were Russian dupes. Like Republicans, Sanders was their favorite Democrat because their fake identity internet posting style could so easily defeat him.

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#305644 - 02/19/18 04:08 AM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13270
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Interesting info in the indictments: Russian trolls actually helped Sanders in the primary campaigns. So some Sanders supporters were Russian dupes. Like Republicans, Sanders was their favorite Democrat because their fake identity internet posting style could so easily defeat him.


It was and still is a lot more complicated than that.
The explanation contains glaring omissions.

Actually they only started out supporting Bernie in a perfunctory manner and that was only to draw in most of the inexperienced first time voters and fringe Bernie supporters. They switched to Jill Stein VERY quickly.

Go check out ANY Bernie Sanders page on Facebook, just as one interesting experiment, and note the hundreds, or even thousands of troll posts. It is now impossible, and HAS BEEN impossible, to carry on a discussion about Bernie on any of those pages, and it has been that way since about four to six months after they first appeared. Even Bernie's own Facebook page is completely trolled to the limit.
Most of the Bernie Facebook groups are de facto Jill Stein groups now, minus a name change.
And if you dare to suggest that they change the name, they will organize and "report your post" for offensive content, which will result in you losing your posting ability on Facebook temporarily, for a day, three days, thirty days or even 120 days.

I know, because I experienced it, and so have hundreds of other Bernie supporters I know.

I witnessed it FIRSTHAND. And I wasn't the only one.
Don't take my word for it, go check it out yourself.
And notice the JOIN DATE for most of the people trolling, most of them "joined Facebook" immediately after the 2016 campaign season started, and have minimal content on their home pages.

Go ahead, go see for yourself.
I dare anyone who doesn't believe me to go check it out.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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#305652 - 02/19/18 08:25 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7886
Loc: North San Diego County
I believe you. It's not that they were Bernie fans or Jill fans. Just anti-Clinton, who is known as pretty hard-line anti-Putin. If they could suck a bunch of potential Clinton supporters into wasting their votes, great for them.

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#305665 - 02/20/18 07:51 PM Re: Round Table for January, 2018 [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 13270
Loc: Whittier, California
All I know is, my friends and I were there.
We got to all these Bernie pages on Facebook and were having a grand old time discussing how we could help the old fart when suddenly it was like a mudslide in Montecito.
We'd leave one page or group in disgust, seek out an alternative, but pretty soon it was as if ALL pages and groups devoted to Bernie were being blanketed, almost like the soot and ash from a mega-volcanic eruption.

Even pages which had moderators, the mods couldn't keep up!
I know what a sock puppet poster looks and sounds like.
_________________________
"He wakes up in the morning, ****s all over Twitter, ****s all over us, ****s all over his staff, then hits golf balls."
---Congressman Peter King

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