Originally Posted By: Phil Hoskins
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No one is discussing anarchism, 2wins. As to alternative communities, it is irrelevant whether they fail or succeed. Just as voluntary communes currently are free to form and free to fail in America, so to would voluntary communities within a libertarian-influenced America. As to shared agreement (laws), it would also be a core element of a libertarian-influenced society.
Yours,
Issodhos


Wouldn't the failure of a city such as New York or Los Angeles be pretty catastrophic? I guess it depends upon what you mean by "fail", but if you mean the breaking apart of the economic, legal and social system, allowing the "freedom" of all to participate in forming a new system, then the costs of failure could be incalculable.


In the manner in which the term is being used, neither New York nor Los Angeles are "alternative" communities, Phil. Nor am I speaking of a "breaking apart" of our current system. A libertarian-oriented nation would require gradual and incremental change of the society we currently endure. For example, using the current system to persuade enough citizens to support the decriminalization of recreational drug usage. That one action alone would be a boon to personal liberty -- reducing incarceration rates, destroyed lifes, police license to intrude, corruption, and huge reductions in penal, policing, and judiciary costs.



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It always seems cavalier to me to take away from the people the right to impact the venue they share, whether it is a township or a nation, by the exercise of the right of the community to take some of the spoils of all that freedom from those who have gained most from it; take for the purpose of common defense, both against armies, nations or rogue elements and against failures of other kinds, such as the health, economic policies to best enhance the chance for all to prosper.

You will need to be more specific and more definitive as to what you mean here before I can hope to understand it enough to attempt and answer, Phil.
Yours,
Issodhos
Ps. A side note: I think New York and LA, among other major cities (Detroit comes to mind), are already, and have for quite some time, been "failed" communities that actually would, relatively speaking, conform to Checkerboard's Somalia comparison. Many are just slow or unable to recognize it because they view such dysfunctional constructs as being normal.
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"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos