Originally Posted By: issodhos
 Originally Posted By: Schlack

and women of course have enjoyed the same inherent rights as equals with men right?


Females have, and always have had, the same natural rights that men have. For ages, and in some societies continuing today, females were prevented from exercising those natural rights.


is there some law of physics or biology that is the foundation of these rights?

all human behaviour has developed throughout the development of our species. thought is but one of them. the notion of "rights" has been different thoughout history. Rights are a human construct. if by Natural rights, you mean a particular construction version of rights, i can agree that yes they exist. if youre meaning is that natural rights are a distinct idea that has always existed and only recently been discovered.. well ... piffle ... unless of course you can provide a fossil record.

(could you please clarify lest this all be a semantic misunderstanding)

funnily enough I should, given a little time (and a little less booze) be able to present a fossil record of the development of rights, uneven and with many evolutionary off shoots (libertarianism being one). we will be able to view rights developing over time.

how, if they developed over time, could we arrive at natural rights? we could arrive at refined rights, developed rights, legacy rights no problemo, i just have a hard time accepting that all the greatest minds of history did not stumble accross the same natural rights as your particular band of libertarianism. or that they didnt all branch off from the stem of natural rights.

I cannot agree that people went about purposefully denying peoplye their natural rights, that were only defined relatively recently, rather than applying their societal norms - for example Nobility, slaves and women. Their rights were inherently different and many at the time would have claimed that order as "natural",

"Natural" seems to be a weasel word designed, i think to try to own debate, who could be against something natural. - a bit like pro-life!

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P.s. So, how are those EU fishermen doing now that we resolved their dilemma?:-)


im contemplating my response, I want to be careful that that strand of this thread doesnt end up being a pantomime: "oh no he didnt, OH YES HE DID". rest assured I will come back to you, hopefully with something exploratory or constructive.
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"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)