Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack

The wage anyone gets can be a livable wage. The reason people don't have a livable wage is because the have developed the habit of living beyond their means.


--Sigh.

Daryl's health insurance: $450 a month, scheduled to hit $650 next year or close to it.
Bri's health insurance: $200 a month, she is relatively healthy, Daryl is definitely NOT.

Car payment: $850 a month. This is NOT "living beyond our means", it is the ONLY way to carry my wife without lifting her manually in and out of an ordinary car and being forced to use a manual wheelchair, which the docs said is no longer possible.
The old van was beyond repair except for the engine and transmission, which are still quite serviceable but as a reliable vehicle it was finished. The new van, which is fully handicap accessible, cost 80 thousand bucks, forty thousand of which the VA covered, but we're still on the hook for the financing, which works out to 850 a month.

Mortgage: $2600 a month.
Add food, clothing and utilities and that's it.
We don't party, we don't go to expensive dinners, we don't buy stuff online beyond normal necessities, and we don't gamble in Vegas.

Are we "living beyond our means?"

Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack

At my last job I was paid $12.50 an hour and I lived quite comfortable. Not only was I able to live quite comfortably but I was able to live without a paycheck for almost a year. To live comfortable it is not how much you make it is how you spend what you make. I was able to that because I did not go into debt, instead I saved my money by living within my means.


When was that last job if I may ask?

Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack

To have universal healthcare is to have free healthcare for all. To do that would require those in the healthcare industry to work for free. Working for free is definitely not a living wage. Do I have a conservative solution for the problems you claim to exist? Yes, it is to government out of our lives as much as is possible! What you want to see happen requires an ever larger and more intrusive government. Governments do not and cannot generate wealth. What governments do is confiscate wealth. Reduce the size of our government and wealth will be created. THe more wealth that is created the more money there will be available to reduce those problems. Will the problems you listed be solved? No, and even with the "social democracy" you want they will continue to exist. The idea that the problems of the world can be eliminated is utopian thinking. Remember that the word utopia is Latin for nowhere.


Fine, no universal health care.
Do you mind chipping in for funeral and burial for my son?
We won't be able to afford his medical bills anymore.

Here's the most recent one:



By the way, saying UHC requires medical to work for free is NONSENSE.
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The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)