Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
[quote=Greger]Class hierarchy is truly the one thing conservatives intend on conserving. Conservatives of both parties.

Bougies and Proles...surely you've heard of them NWP? Even in the throes of end game capitalism the class hierarchy MUST be preserved, and con-served..
Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't following the thought process.

THAT IS BULLSHIT!
As a conservative I have NEVER been concerned or even noticed what class a person is supposedly a member of. Separating people into a class is a Marxist idea. An idea that the left of today has now broaden into identity politics. The greatness of capitalism is that a whatever person's financial situation is that it can go up or down. There is no class hierarchy in conservatism. In the 50 plus years that I have been active in conservatism I have NEVER seen anyone put in a class!

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Thanks for demonstrating, my friend, all that I said in my last post to you. When I was an active conservative I thought that it meant approaching issues with skepticism, testing ideas, and going forward incrementally with forethought. Those that claim the mantle of conservatism today are none of that (as you have essentially conceded). That you could not name a single person who embodies conservatism modernly seems to prove my point. I very much appreciate the urgent desire to cling to principles and rationality, but it has slipped away from the GOP.

I did not claim that there are none who claim the mantle of Conservatism. There are millions of us. Your request was to name one. Since I could not think of anyone who is instantly recognizable I refrained from naming anyone. Nor did I say that the GOP is or ever was a conservative organization. It is a political organization that exists for the sole purpose of winning elections.
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But then I looked back into history and realized that what I thought was conservatism had never truly existed in America. It was a nice fantasy I held, but it was never true. Those that claimed the mantle were ever mean-spirited, narrow-minded, and impractical. The giants of early "American conservatism" (e.g.,Jefferson, Madison) abandoned those so-called principles as soon as they took power, because they learned quickly that they were great in theory, but had no application in the real world. The list of such failures is as long as the list of Presidents.

In other words when you looked at our Founding Fathers they did not live up to your expectation of living by the ideals they promoted. Guess what? Nobody can or ever will be able to do that. Our Founding Fathers had to deal with life on life's terms so they had to do the best that could. Because they are human beings, not gods, they fell short of living up the ideals they professed. But then it is easy to judge and condemn them for not doing what you thought they should. So stick your condescending arrogant condemnation of them where the sun doesn't shine!
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"Color blindness" and "classless" are just euphemisms for their opposites, elitism and keeping the lower classes and inferior races down and maintaining power. By ignoring the realities of racism and economic exploitation, we can pretend we're pursuing meritocracy, but it's a fraud. At every step of the progress of the Nation it had been conservatives who resisted, demurred and obstructed. That is objective and irrefutable fact. Again, name one instance where this has not been true.

You are the elitist not the people you are criticizing. Again the people you are judging had to live life on it's terms not in the idealistic way that you wanted them to. While it is true that "conservatives" blocked some of the changes that should have been that you lump all conservatives into one group is bullshit! Yesterday's liberal is tomorrow's conservative. That is human nature. So your fact is not as objective and irrefutable as you think it is.

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I am very sympathetic to your desire for this not to be true, my friend. I truly am. But it is. (By the way, I've read most of the tomes you listed, but the critique I would provide would be neither on topic nor within the patience of the board. I'm not a novice to the subject.)

No, what you say is not true. It your opinion not facts. That you cannot accept the fact that no one can or ever will live up to the ideals they profess is the basis for your condemnation of our Founding Fathers and your imagined superiority. When you get rid of your insufferable ego then you might make comments that are not condescending and arrogant. But were that to happen you would again be an American Conservative.
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The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary