Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted By: Greger
The simplest route to universal healthcare is expanding and changing our Medicare and Medicaid programs.

Yes, let's extend Medicare to everyone. What a great idea!
Originally Posted By: Greger
Senator, these are workable solutions, within constitutional parameters, and can be funded without difficulty.

Medicare is currently a $79,000,000,000,000.00+ unfunded liability. Our current on the books debt is $22,000,000,000,000+. Our entire country the land, and the wealth of everyone in it is $22,000,000,000,000. So if we were to sell the entire USA of and tax everyone in it at a rate of 100% we could only pay off our current debt. There would be absolutely nothing left to pay the unfunded liability of Medicare. So NO extending Medicare to everyone is NOT possible!

Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Conservatism is a breeding ground of anti-intellectualism, it’s a sin to be smart.

Do you ever do any research pdx rick? This conservative does and my research has repeatedly shown you to be wrong. The facts I have just posted to refute Greger's comments show that what he claims is not and cannot happen.
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Two notes here that I think are very important. First, while that quote of James Madison is correct, it was a) not the last word on the subject (in fact, he lost the argument to Hamilton, who "argued for a broad interpretation which viewed spending as an enumerated power Congress could exercise independently to benefit the general welfare.

Madison wrote the general Welfare clause, therefore it is his comments on it should be how it is interpreted. That the Butler decision chose to use Hamilton's opinion of it and not what Madison intended it to be makes the decision of questionable Constitutional validity. The Butler decision was made during the New Deal which when FDR ignored our Constitution.
That, my friend, is an ideologue's conclusion, not a valid argument. "I disagree, therefore, you are wrong." Not exactly how discussion proceeds.
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich